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My take on the Handicap system

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by ec90t, Mar 20, 2009.

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  1. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    This is how the Handicap system should be;

    1) Abolish the 19yd line. There is no need for this yardage at all.

    2) Have 3 classes, (20-22yd, 23-25yd, 26-27yd).

    a)You can only squad with others in same class. This would heighten the competetion as you would be shooting with class competition. This would also make squading easier due to the fact that there is only a maximum deviation of two yards in the squad.

    b)Each class shoots for there own trophy/money. (all option/prize money stays in class)


    The merits of this being the fact that it would even out the playing field for all the shooters. You would be competeing against others of the same shooting ability.

    All-American points would only be awarded in the 26-27yd class as that's where they are anyway.

    This would also almost entirely eliminate "sandbagging" because of the prize pool would lesson.

    At larger shoots hold a shoot-off (100 bird maximum sudden death style) between all the class winners for the championship. I know this would require three fields, but it would be fun to watch.

    Just my thoughts on the situation.

    ec90t
     
  2. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    I should have also noted that sub-classes wouldn't change, ( sub-jr,jr, vet,senior vet, ladies, etc).

    ec90t
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The handicap system is in need of repair. If people keep winning from the 27 yard line, they should move to the 28 yard line. Does that make sense? HMB
     
  4. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    "they should move to the 28 yard line. Does that make sense?"

    No.

    The same guys would win from there and would continue winning until you moved them back so far that they couldn't shoot a good score not because of skill but that they were finally out of range.
     
  5. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    hmb,

    There's no need for a 28yd line or anything longer than 27. This would just pit the shooters of same ability against each other. Kinda like roadracing where you have multiple classes racing about the track at the same time but only racing against others in class.

    This would also lesson the "Pro's" income from shooting. The would help the ameture part of the ATA to again be more truthful. Face it, there will always be a top dog you're just going to moderate his income a bit.

    ec90t
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Good answer, don't move them back, just give them honorary punches. Does that make any sense? HMB
     
  7. motrap

    motrap Member

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    If when you break a good score from the 20 it makes sense to move back ........

    and when you break a good score from the 25 it makes sense to move back .....

    how could it not make sense if when you break a good score from the 27 that you move back .... ?

    ............ geeeeeeez !
     
  8. motrap

    motrap Member

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    BTW, ec90t ............ your first thoughts have some merit ............... I need to think them through .............

    your answer to HMB, however is kinda' ....... well .......... nonsensical

    sorry I forgot to sign my post above .........

    for the good of trap .......... Rudy
     
  9. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    It doesn't make a differience if you shoot a score good enough to get punched from the 27. That's the stopping point no further. Much like shooting AAA singles average, that's as good as it gets.

    Limits have to be put on all forms of competition. Just because a football team can put up 40 points or better in a game, you don't lengthen a football field to lessen their score. The economics would be the death nail of it.

    ec90t
     
  10. BD Trapshooter

    BD Trapshooter Member

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    This is from the trap clubs point of view. Where will the club generate more income than they currently do to put in the extra concrete for the 28 then 29 then 30 yard lines, assuming they have the room. There are clubs that still only have the 25 yard line. The facts are as stated above the long yardage shooters will still win until they are moved out of range. I like the 3 class proposal by ec90t. Similar to singles but from handicap.

    Dan
     
  11. 1brucem

    1brucem TS Member

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    I agree with ec90t. When I started shooting handys, my goal was the 27 yd line. Now my goal is to compete with other 27 yd shooters. It makes sense that 20 yd shooters compete with other 20 yd shooters etc. If I'm beaten by a 23 yd shooter, that's great, but we all know he hasn't put in the time or has the years behind him to call him the best. How many of the Grand handicap winners who won from the 20 yd line are now consistently in the winners circle? Bruce
     
  12. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    With that logic you should just do away with the handicap event. Just have singles and doubles. That's how they run trap in the olympics. HMB
     
  13. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    hmb,

    How's that? It's still a 3 discipline sport.

    ec90t
     
  14. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem. The handicap discipline is a waste of time and money for the average shooter. Singles and doubles, that's the way to go. HMB
     
  15. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    hmb,

    I guess that's where our view point differs. I think singles are a waste of time and 'caps and doubles are where it's at.

    When I shot a lot of registered targets I could keep an A average in singles. I was never competetive in A class, but able to shoot well enough to hold an A average. I never ran 100 straight, and only ran 99 one time. I could though muster up a 94-96 at about any given time. My best 200 score was a 195. At most big shoots this might be good for runner-up in D class.

    I lost interest in singles and had fun with doubles and 'caps until the ATA said that I wouldn't get a review on my 'caps yardage until I shot some singles. I thought it was a bunch of BS so I quit shooting ATA targets.

    I just have fun shooting now whether it be games, sporting, skeet, bunker, etc.

    ec90t
     
  16. jbrucejr

    jbrucejr Member

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    ec90t

    I like your idea. It is similar to the way registered skeet works. Every event is shot in your class. There is still a HAA and HOA that includes all classes. As many of you know all ties in skeet are shot-off with doubles from stations 3,4 & 5 - miss and out - not a lot of shootoffs go a full box. I started winning money the second skeet shoot I entered - that will NEVER happen for me in trap unless I do the accidental thing and win a Lewis purse.

    I have been shooting skeet for the last 4 years, and have only started getting serious about trap since the end of 2008. Because the shoots I have attended in the last 5 months were all winter events here in Nebraska - I think the TOTAL pool of shooters I have competed with is about 30. There was only one shoot with enough people to qualify for a yardage punch.

    Not having been involved for long I guess I don't have any better ideas. I do agree that something needs to be done to keep people like me from leaving the world of ATA shooting because the same small group "take it all" at every shoot in the area.

    John
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    ec90t, maybe I'm not getting this, but what's the difference between your proposal and the yardage-group system used many places now, including the Grand?

    Neil
     
  18. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Neil,

    Basically it's just simple modification of what's allready in place. Let the big dogs get into each others pocket instead of the whole shoots pocket.

    If you want to play the options, go ahead because all of the money would stay in class. The bulk of the money would be in the class with the biggest attendance.

    Having 3 shooters standing equal would be better for the sport in the long run. It gives more oppertunity to more shooters and thus encourage growth of the sport.If you must declare a champion at the larger shoots, refer to the shoot-off format I descibed.

    If a entinty refuses to adapt it will go by the wayside of something that is better suited. Change is a scary word to most, but it has to happen for the good of the whole.

    Just my view of it all. I won't go back to shooting ATA targets until they make some changes. The last time I looked, attendance is down at most of the shoots, and it's not all because of the economy. The ones that are thriving is because they're listening to the shooters and what they want.

    ec90t
     
  19. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    How do the "Big Dogs" get into your pockets unless you let them. Pick the purses you think you have a chance at and avoid the others. Your change is not a change, so what is your point.

    I love non-shooters telling us how to change the system.

    Don
     
  20. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    Don,

    Everytime you sign up to shoot at a bigger event, your feeding the top dogs, whether you play the options or not. The prize money comes from the entries and it all doesn't stay in class. Option money goes to the best at that option. I'll guarantee that there is nothing you do better, shooting wise, than the top tier shooters on a regular basis.

    I can see the tree's for the forrest, how about you?

    ec90t
     
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