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My Shooter Complaint for the Day

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by phirel, Mar 3, 2009.

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  1. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    This seems to happen often. A squad takes the line. The squad leader asks to see a target but he does not look at the target. He just asked to see one because that is what everyone else does. The target may be high, low, wide or short. It doesn't matter. The leader mounts his gun and shoots.

    Even if the squad leader cannot recognize a poorly set target, and many shooters do not recognize them, he should at least look at the rest of the squad and see if they think the targets are OK. If the leader does not want to do this, I see no reason why he would even ask to see a target.

    Pat Ireland
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If the first target is bad a second target should be called for. If the second target is good you must call for a third target to break the tie. If the third target is bad management should be summoned to adjust the machine.

    After the machine is adjusted repeat the above until the majority of targets is good. HMB
     
  3. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    The squad leaders I usually shoot with call for the "see one" and after it appears, they ask the squad if they are happy with it.
     
  4. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Had to laugh at your complaint Pat, funny but true. I dis-agree with hmb, "you should repeat the above until ALL the targets are good". I hope Pat hasn't started another one of these threads going forever on the same foolishness, but I have already contributed to that end it appears.

    Shoot well and often while we can, Bob
     
  5. trapperjohn

    trapperjohn TS Member

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    I always have three commands:

    Squad, please look down range

    "pull"

    Squad, is the target OK?

    Trapper John
     
  6. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    I'll play the "Devils Advocate" on this one...

    As most ATA registered shooters fall into the middle/lower classes, it would be my opinion that most shooters would not recognize properly set targets anyway.

    Flame away.

    Curt
     
  7. BT-100dc

    BT-100dc Active Member

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    If the first squad out, since I'm usually the puller, I will make sure the targets are legal. If there's a tricky wind I'll advise the squad leader and he or she will take it from there. I rarely have to reset the targets. It costs just as much to shoot good targets and as a shooter and puller, I make sure we get what we pay for, Darrell
     
  8. Big Az Al

    Big Az Al Well-Known Member

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    OK

    but here is another take.

    I shoot on what ever squad is available, a lot of times the first squad out, and often on post one. I call to see the bird and am thinking "that just aint right", four other shooters say that looks good to us. I call a second bird and it is worse and four voice's say "why aint we shooting"!

    So how to you NOT get in the habit of just going thru the motions?

    Al Lingham
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Al- A very valid point. Next week at the Southern Grand, I hope my squad follows Kay Ohye's squad. When that happens, my targets are right.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Big Az Al

    Big Az Al Well-Known Member

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    About a year or three ago, first squad out on doubles, and yes I was going thru the motions.

    I called to see the pair, then threw the gun to my shoulder and called pull, shot over the pair, and then heard

    Nine ( my squad and the squad on deck) guys say, "why in the H*** didn't you wait and let then reset that crab!"

    when I slowed down and saw what I had done, those were some of flattest birds I had ever seen, I mean if I had had a skeet set up I still would have shot over both birds!

    Well live and learn, now I wait for the deer in the hadlights looks from the rest of the squad, and if they won't let me get the trap reset, THEN I will take then as they fly!

    Al
     
  11. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    At the bigger shoots shoots here in AZ, prepare to shoot higher than normally set target heights. Barry Roach mentioned this a while back about shooting targets here in AZ and it's true. The average shooters just accept the fact and shoot lousy scores because they can't handle high targets with lower shooting shotguns. Very experienced shooters, even with lower impacting guns, know how to handle such targets. Of course wind speeds and direction has a drastic effect on how targets should be set once targets change patterns but it's tough to get them re-set at times. Of the targets I've shot here over a couple years, the ration of too low to too high is way out of balance on the higher side, especially at the bigger shoots. My eyes tell me they are too high, my bad back doesn't want me to go up and gettum. Quite the gage for high targets but good for a lousy score. Hap
     
  12. Kent

    Kent TS Member

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    I find this thread interesting. Yes I know what a leagal target looks like, this is my 15 th season in the ATA. I have evolved into my squads lead off man over the years but I have a situation I would like to mention. We come in all sizes, some short some average and some taller in height. I am taller than 98 percent of the ATA shooters and what is a legal ATA set target seems low to me. Should I be able to ask for the target to be raized? What looks high to someone 5 foot 5 appears low to someone 6 foot 5. My sight picture is different than most. Esepeciall a legal doubles target seems very low to me. Another factor that may have an effect on my height perception is that I am a one eyed shooter and may not pick up the target as fast as others. Why don't we let every squad set their own targets LOL.


    Yes Hap, Barry know how to set a good target.
     
  13. Dednlost

    Dednlost Member

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    They may not know a legal target but dang sure will want one the looks right to them, usally way too high and will bitch until they get it. Just my experience.
     
  14. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Dednlost

    "They may not know a legal target but dang sure will want one the looks right to them, usally way too high and will bitch until they get it."

    Interesting observation let me embellish it a little. A target thrown over level ground usually easier to sell as good. A target thrown over ground that rises up in front of the trap seem low(flat)the greater the rise the flatter(lower)the appearance. A target thrown over ground that falls away from the trap appear high the greater the decline the higher the appearance.

    Yet in all of these scenarios the target can still be legal. Just My experience.

    Bob Lawless
     
  15. Steven

    Steven TS Member

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    REV. I had a good laugh, I agree 100%
     
  16. james huffington

    james huffington TS Member

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    Guys, the rule book covers this thread, the height of a legal target is 8-10 feet 30 ft. in front of the trap house, with 8 ft being preferred. you are allowed 1 ,lets see one, target in 16s & handi's, if it look good, the next ta
    rget has to be shoot at or its a FF. you get two pairs of freebe's in doubles I seriously doubt if one out of 100 shooters can tell what height a target is when it emerges from the trap. But you should ask the squad if they are acceptable. of course wind conditions always are the exception. just remember, everyone has to shoot at the same targets. don't be so pickey and good shoting.
     
  17. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Pat

    "Even if the squad leader cannot recognize a poorly set target, and many shooters do not recognize them, he should at least look at the rest of the squad and see if they think the targets are OK."

    If I don't like the target I see on the "lets see on" call I will immediately call for a hold it!! or stop!! no matter what position I am on and tell the squad leader I don't like the targets and wish to see another.

    I am not bashful and I don't wait to be invited to give my opinion of the targets.

    shootlow

    "Someone finally posted the rules."

    I don't understand your statement this would seem to imply that you are incapable of posting the rules yourself.

    I don't believe this is the case so why the negative comment?

    Bob Lawless
     
  18. Aintlost

    Aintlost Member

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    Pat, Thanks for sharing your concerns, It's nice to see the rule posted. When I'm paying my money to shoot ATA targets I want to shoot the best target possible. Remember they are your targets, you paid for them. I like getting to the club early to help set the targets to make sure they are good.
    I don't know a better way to ness up a good Sat or Sun than to be ask to shoot poor quality targets.

    Remember, you bought them shoot them all.
     
  19. Post  2

    Post 2 TS Member

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    Bigjim, Unless you are shooting a small 1 or 2 trap club everybody is not shooting the same targets. Just the persons on the same traps. Post-2
     
  20. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

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    I am constantly amused by this aspect of American Trap shooting - the shooters demanding the targets be set to their personal satisfaction.

    Unbelievable.

    The gamesmanship involved brings the whole sport into disrepute.

    The target settings need to be reviewed before shooting commences by a target jury - all shooters get to see targets from each field. After that the targets become the responsibility of the referee. Oh, that's right - you guys don't have one of those. That's a shame.
     
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