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My powder drops are ALWAYS EXACTLY xx.x

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by mrskeet410, Dec 26, 2011.

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  1. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    "My powder drops are ALWAYS EXACTLY xx.x" goes the common claim.

    Mine aren't. They're not even close with the big flake powders. They're close, but not EXACT, with very fine .410 powders.

    But a friend claimed he always got EXACTLY xx.x, every time. My friend used Red Dot through a MEC 600 Jr. ??? But one time I was there and he was set-up and loading with Red Dot through his MEC 600 Jr., so I asked him to check a couple of drop weights. He set up his balance scale, leveled it, and set it to weigh the desired weight, 17.5 grains if I remember correctly.

    He dropped a charge, set the pan on the scale, and the beam raised, wobbled, and then stopped a couple notches above or below the balance mark. "See, right on" he declared. Huh? Not what I call right on. So he dropped a couple of more. Same results, same declarations of "Right on."

    Since then I've been even more suspicious of claims that "My powder drops are ALWAYS EXACTLY xx.x." I'm even more suspicious of on-line claims.
     
  2. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I agree - you have to use very fine powders to get CLOSE to the same every time. With PB, I can stay within a tenth of a grain either way and I don't think a .2 swing is all that bad. If you cut open a box of new factory loads and weigh the powder and shot charges, your drops will seem VERY accurate. Just comparing crimp appearances tells you what's inside isn't the same in every shell.

    Ed
     
  3. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Good, now I have another reason to blame the sound of that funny word, LOSS!
     
  4. Bird30

    Bird30 TS Member

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    I load PB for that very reason. My Dillon drops most powders pretty close but for me PB is the best as far as powder drops.

    Dave
     
  5. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I don't know of any powder that drops consistantly w/o variation, mine is usually + or - .2 of a grain and that is pretty good, and will not cause loss of a target. I am not worried about that in the very least, and I weigh on an electronic scale, it is the RCBS.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  6. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    +/ - .2 overall is more realistic. Which means a variation of .4 among shells.
     
  7. Didreckson

    Didreckson Active Member

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    I load 700X primarily, Unique and Green Dot for handicap. I have loaded some Clays and Clay Dot, always end up back with 700X.

    Powder drops are generally +/- .1. Once in a great while could vary .2, but I start to get concerned and measure several in a row, resulting in drops that are dead on and I go back to moving along loading.
     
  8. TD1958

    TD1958 Member

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    Yes, I agree with a .4 variation that being .2 on either side. And for Dr Gary Bryant AKA Dr, Longshot. You didn't even know what longshot powder was until you and I broke a few good scores at Snake Road and you asked what I was using for backups. I will leave you try to figure out who you were shooting with. LOL, Thanks, Tim
     
  9. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    TD1958 I remember who you are and thye Longshot, I don't use Longshot for line back ups, Longshot strictly for shootoffs, yours worked very, very well. But I use 26 Grs 800-X w 1 1/4 oz 6s for line back-up.

    I like 33.5 Longshot w 1 1/8th oz #6s for shootoffs, in a STS hull.

    Looks like Snake Rd is almost ready to re-open.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  10. tarhawk

    tarhawk TS Member

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    Understanding the "Inherent Variability" of a process tells you it is a physical impossibility to get the same drop twice regardless of loader, powder or scale used. Variability of a process is part of the reason tolerances are shown on blueprints. If you had a precise enough scale, it would show you even factory loads are not the same. Factories load to a specification but associated with that specification is an acceptable tolerance for variability.
     
  11. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    TARHAWK: yes + or - 90 fps that is a lot, for specs according to SAAMI stds.


    GB
    DLS
     
  12. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    The hard part is trying to figure out which one is + or - in speed, so I can adjust for it. As if there is not enough things to think about. Do trapshooters overanalyze things, or are some just anal? Jon
     
  13. Rebel Sympathy

    Rebel Sympathy Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the other posts regarding +/- .2 variation. And, I don't concern myself with that....

    One thing I have started doing which I think helps, is cycling the handle on my reloader (MEC 600) - as though I am charging, seating the wad, starting the crimp and finalizing the crimp - about four cycles after filling the powder bottle. I.e., I work the handle about 16 times and try to duplicate the same strokes I apply when actually reloading. I do this with the powder bushing positioned under the powder bottle. I don't move the charge bar, and I usually do this before I even fill the shot bottle. My results indicate more consistant powder drops for the first three or four shells reloaded, which tend to weigh light if I don't do it.

    Mike
     
  14. Pull Bang

    Pull Bang Member

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    It is TOTALLY impossible to get EXACT powder drops with ANY home reloader. The vibration by loading shells will settle more/less powder in the bushing or adjustable charge bar.

    I use the Mec. Grabber, have been for years. I check the first shell for every box (every 25). Yes, this does take some time, gives me assurance that nothing has gown wrong.

    It is my experience that the normal variation is +/- .2 grain. In rare accuracies I have had +/- .3 grain variance. I use a digital scales.

    I have used many powders through the years (presently using Clay Dot) and have not seen any one powder over another giving the perfect drop. IT CAN NOT BE OBTAINED IN HAND RELOADING!!!

    HOWEVER, if you are getting wild variations consistently you are doing something wrong or there is a problem with your reloader.


    Frank
     
  15. kgp912kgp

    kgp912kgp Active Member

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    With my MEC 650 I usually get a heavier drop to start off with. Then it tends to go lighter and more consistent. I have seen a bushing (#28) throw (700X) 18.2gr first stroke then throw 17.2 to 17.6 for the rest of the session. I do also give the charge bar a jiggle during the up stroke to asure the powder is settled. I am overall happy with my results as the change in weight does not affect the crimp and it does not affect me with hitting targets.
     
  16. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    I don't know what you people are talking about, my powder drops are always exactly the same when I weigh them on the bathroom scale.
     
  17. skip

    skip Member

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    Same here +/- .2 grains
    Both machines, Spolar or Ponsness Warren
     
  18. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    My Spolar reloader has the little buzzer thing for the primer feeder. I believe this helps keep things more consistent from drop to drop. One must also consider in the measurement department, that you are really dependent on your instrument. In real scientific labs, the last digit is considered at best a 50% confident measurement. This is because of the nature of the digital devices used to build the instrument. In each calculation, the answer is either 1 or 0, so when you total that all up, the last digit on the scale is the least reliable number.

    To account for this, we use devices that are capable of measuring at least twice as many units as we want. In our case, we are worried about 0.1 grains of powder. So in reality, you only have a device that is capable of measuring within .2 grains, if the digital read out says 19.7 grains, then that measurement has a confidence of +/-.2 grains. If the end all for reloading accuracy is .1 grains, then we need a scale that can measure out to one more decimal: XX.XX grains. More is even better when it comes to calculating the confidence in that measurement.
     
  19. Bird30

    Bird30 TS Member

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    I have loaded shells with a electronic dribbler and scales to get the same powder drops in each shell and took them to the trapfield just to see if it would make a difference. I could not tell any difference between those shells and the ones that my dillon loads except the loading process was a lot slower.

    The only thing that would bother me if I was loading high pressure type of loads would be the plus side of the drops.

    Dave
     
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