1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

My 1st 28 gauge reloads.Shot light?Powder Ok?Tips?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by StansCustoms, Jun 10, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,466
    Ok guys...Just finished my 1st (2) boxes of reloads in over 20 years.

    I think so far it's cost close to $2,000 a box, LOL. Only kidding...but getting set up is costly compared to back in the day.

    I'm using a Mec 650 Progressive loader...with presized hulls via a separate operation with a Mec Hull Conditioner. It has a new 502 charge bar and is tuned very well...great crimps and pretty smooth (perfect except for the primer gets cocked sometimes when falling into the hole on the 2nd station..)

    I'm loading 28 gauge WWHS hulls with W209 primers, WAA28H Wads and Longshot powder. Same recipe that's on the Winchester Wad bag.

    I'm attempting to loads some by the book 1200fps/.75 0z loads for starters.

    Everything is looking good...but after getting it going smoothly...I spot checked the shot and powder drop. It looks like the powder is dead on at 14.6 grains...but the shot is light at 0.6595 oz.(should be 0.7500).

    I'd like not to get into the relearning curve without having to custom grind the new charge bar shot hole...Sooo...what will this light load shoot like.?? The subgauges are hard for me to guess at. Will this be a useable load...or must I file out the bar.

    Too bad the Universal charge bar gets such bad press...for a newbie it sure looks like a no brainer on something like this....??

    All comments welcome..

    Thanks..Stan
     
  2. skipsor

    skipsor Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    88
    Take one of your shot drops and put it on the scale. Then add pieces of shot until you get to your desired weight, 3/4 oz. Count the number of pieces you added and see if it is really an issue. If it is then you will have to live with it or make the hole a little bigger or buy another bar.

    Personally, I like the adjustable charge bars because you can get very close with them. They are on all of my MEC's and there is no way you would get me to go without one.

    That's just my opinion and there will certainly be others in the near future.
     
  3. Straight50

    Straight50 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    Ky
    You didn't mention shot size Stan. It will have a bearing on weight of shot charge, as well as chilled shot versus Magnum shot will also affect weight. Shoot them and don't worry about it. They will shoot fine. Mec and other manufactures have no way of knowing what you will use, therefore most loader charge bars will vary shot charge weight depending on what you use. If you want to dedicate a charge bar by grinding it to throw an exact charge you will need to decide what you intend to use (7.5 or 8 or ?) plus chilled versus magnum (magnum weighs less than chilled due to amount of antimony in magnum). Of course once you do this anything else you use in terms of size will still vary, except now it will weigh heavy (#9's) or lighter (#6's). You really need to weigh the charge in grains to see exactly whats being thrown. Anyway have fun, whatever you decide.

    Arv
     
  4. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,466
    Thanks for the help Arv..

    I didn't know the size of shot changed the weight?? But after I think about...smaller shot wouild have less voids wouldn't it..and be heavier?

    I'm experimenting with some 7.5 Mag shot in these loads.

    I also will load some with #9 Mag shot.

    You said I need to measure the charge in grains...are you talking about the shot??? Grains ..as in the measurement used for the powder? If so ..I guess I don't know why, please educate me.

    Since the shot is a little lighter than the "Book 1200fps Recipe", will it change the velocity...as in a little faster or...?

    Thanks..Stan
     
  5. Straight50

    Straight50 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    Ky
    I check my shot charge weight on occasion just to make sure everythings ok, and I am getting 492 grains (1 1/8oz) of shot, plus or minus 5% (ATA legal). Yes, the air space between large shot and smaller shot changes the actual weight thrown. Its sort of a moot point really, because 7.5 shot weighs about 1.4 grains or so, and if you have a 12ga charge bar for 1 1/8 of shot and it actually throws 475 grains or there abouts, whats the difference between that and 492 grains in terms of the number of pellets? 15 or 16 pellets per shell? Do you think that amount will cost you a missed target? Probably not, I am just anal. lol. I cost myself a lot more misses that my equipment and shells. lol. Btw, I have chronographed both (unaltered bar and reamed bar) and don't see any difference. The deviations from shell to shell absorb it, if there is any. IMO!

    Arv
     
  6. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,466
    Arv..

    10-4 I'm guessing the minute weight is totally insignifficant on a 12 gauge. Not sure what impact shot count wise it has on the 28 gauge though...with 7.5's I was thinking it might matter ...that's about 1/6 th of the recipe weight...and 1/6 of the pellet count, but don't know what that equates to.

    The velocity didn't change from reemed to factory bar (different lead weight)?

    Thanks again...Stan...
     
  7. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    Are you using an Electronic Scale or a Balance scale, you should be using a scale to check your loads, Shot sizes on that Shot Bushing should be weighed so you know for sure what you got.

    A rat tail file and a scale is needed.

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  8. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,258
    The load you are making is a safe one and the lower shot weight is due to using the larger high antimony shot. If you did open up the bar to get an actual 3/4 Oz you might have trouble getting it all to fit with the shell and wad you are using. The 28 gauge really performs better with the smaller shot sizes like #8 1/2 and #9 and I suspect that is what your charge bar was made for.

    Rather than alter the bar you have, why not buy another bar rate for the shot size and type you intend to use. They aren't expensive and that leaves you with a bar that will work for the smaller shot sizes.
     
  9. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,466
    Hello Dr.,

    As per post 1:

    "Everything is looking good...but after getting it going smoothly...I spot checked the shot and powder drop. It looks like the powder is dead on at 14.6 grains...but the shot is light at 0.6595 oz.(should be 0.7500)."

    I'm using an electronic scale...which I don't like as much as I thought I would, in fact I have a RCB beam scale on the way (E-Bay).

    There is no shot bushing. There is only a powder bushing on the standard Mec charge bar...hence the question about grinding out that portion.

    I hate to screw up a brand new bar. If that needs to be done..I am leaning toward a Universal charge bar. Looks like Mec would have a better selection of bushings too...seems like a bunch of filing/fitting has to be done even on the powder load recipes that is shown on Winchester Wad bags.

    ...and I sure can't figure out why they don't have shot bushings at all on these bars.

    Stan..
     
  10. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,466
    Hello wolfram...

    Many thanks for the info...I didn't know they made a separate bar for the different shot sizes....that would cure my problem, albeit not nearly as easy to change as shot bushings would be.

    That's better at least, I hate to reinvent the wheel for everything ...just to load a simple base recipe.

    ..regarding performance...with smaller shot...8 1/2's and 9's are the norm for sure...but I shot a few "borrowed" 7 1/2 reloads the other day that were amazing. If mine shoot that well...that will be what I use from now on....especially in the wind, where the Targets are really dancing at the end of their flight (second bird doubles skeet).

    I am also loading some 9's today too...for a side by side comparison.

    Best regards..Stan
     
  11. Bob_K

    Bob_K Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,478
    Location:
    Afton, Virginia
    Stan... Don't be talked out of trying the MultiScale charge bar. I use them on my 12, 20 and 28 ga 9000H loaders. For .410, however, I found the powder cavity too far off center to give me consistent drops. I still use the MEC bar on that machine, but I assure you I opened the shot cavity (to 224 grains). Without reaming the shot cavity, it only dropped 212 gr of West Coast mag shot, and the .410 cannot afford to spare any shot.

    Not only does chilled shot weigh differently than magnum shot, Lawrence weighs differently than West Coast, or Eagle, or Star. The adjustable bar comes in handy for such changes.
     
  12. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,466
    Bob..

    Thanks for the help. I can see where the Universal/Multiscale bar would be "much" easier to calibrate in many cases. Even bushings drop a little differently from time to time. It seems to me that a mean average could be established with a universal bar, or anything really..if it can be secured from creeping.

    I wish I could find one like back in the day, with the cast scale incriments...instead of the tape they use on them now...I would buy one today.

    I agree on all the shot can get in a .410...plus 5% if you can stuff it in there..lol.

    I really think shot count is important with the 28 gauge too..in fact I used to shoot all the lead I can get in anything, even the 12 gauge. If I was looking for less shot...I went to a smaller gauge.

    I didn't really think about different brands of shot weighing differently...thanks for that information...make sense too, I just never thought about it. (I'm getting better about not thinking as I get older..heh heh!).

    Best regards..Stan
     
  13. schockstrap

    schockstrap Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    325
    I guess I shouldn't add more to your burden, but the packing density of spheres is a constant -- there's no relationship to diameter of the spheres. So, there's no difference in #9 and #7.5 shot measured in the bushing other than the top layer of shot in the column (i.e., it's possible that an extra layer of #9's will fit in the area). Of course that's assuming the shot is uniform in size, which is probably not true most of the time. Either way, I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about a bushing being good for more than one shot size.

    --Dan
     
  14. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,466
    Shockstrap..

    Yours is the second post to mention a shot bushing...am I missing something? I didn't think Mec made shot bushings...and that you had to ream the bar

    itself....is this just a figure of speach?

    Thanks...for the input.

    Stan...

    P3At...

    Thanks also for the shot count input...I'm working on about the same senario...

    Stan...
     
  15. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    5,408
    Stan, As far as I know there are no bushing for shot on a Mec.!!! There are Shot bushings on other types of reloaders though. Yes, You will have to file away some metal the get the correct shot drop on your Mec. I use a Dremel tool. There are other ways. Do use the same make and size shot to keep it good. But If you dial it in for Say #8 and you want some #7 l/2's or some #9 at a later time don't worry about that small difference. You can use fingernail polish to get your powder bushings smaller to get the correct powder drops. I never file out powder bushings as you may want to change powders after awhile and you can restore your bushing with fingernail polish remover back to the factory size. Good Luck and break em all Jeff
     
  16. jkortte

    jkortte Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2008
    Messages:
    50
    When using finger nail polish in a bushing, do you use a color to see if it wears or do you use a clear polish?
     
  17. SevenMaryThree

    SevenMaryThree Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2009
    Messages:
    538
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    This is why I like magnum 8.5s in my re-rolls.
     
  18. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,417
    It's important to have the full weight of shot in the shell you are reloading. The powder in the 28 ga. is a slow burning powder and inorder to get a complete burn you need 3/4 ounce of shot to provide the right amount of pressure. HMB
     
  19. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,466
    Thanks for that HMB..

    As per earlier post my shot loads are a little light.

    Other than spliting subgauge tubes or something...I don't know what pressure really does??

    What does a light shot drop mean regarding pressures...in other words how does it affect the shell?

    Less pressure? More velocity? More /less recoil? Other?

    Thanks...Stan
     
  20. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,353
    did you chronograph the load or just going by the sound that they shot "light"

    slight variances in shot weight wont cause that obvious perception

    First thing to do is weigh the powder- which could cause that

    Then chrongraph

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.