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MX8 hammer spring - Is this how they all break?

6K views 26 replies 17 participants last post by  JACK 
#1 ·
The other day when I removed the trigger and let down the hammers, after shooting 100 doubles, I noticed that the right side hammer spring was much weaker. The gun had functioned perfectly all day with no indication that anything was wrong. I saw that the spring had a hairline crack in it. Yesterday I fired 100 more doubles, with the cracked spring, and the gun functioned perfectly with no misfires. Take a look at the cracked spring. This is my first experience with a broken MX8 spring...and I had always assumed that when they break, they break completely in two and the gun quits firing.

Could some of you long time Perazzi shooters tell me if this is the normal way MX8 hammer springs break?

 
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#2 ·
Yes, that's pretty much what I've seen. Except usually the hairline crack is much less obvious. Maybe because you had it cracked long ago and kept shooting.

Marcello on this site is an expert on springs among other things, he can tell you what poundage you need to keep a spring working.

If you pay attention, sometimes you can feel the difference when you pull the trigger on a cracked spring.

Now I know what it looks like if you keep shooting it. LOL.
 
#4 ·
HMB said "When you get tired of broken Italian springs you can get a K-80, Germans make very good springs."

On my new K80 at about 20,000 rounds, I started having trouble with the bottom barrel not firing 3 out of every 100 shots, progressively got worse to about 5 out of 100. I tried to look inside to see what was wrong, but couldn't see anything wrong. About drove me crazy. Sent it to the gunsmith, 3 weeks and $178 later got it back with new hammer springs and now works great.

With my MX8, I replaced the spring, myself, in 30 seconds from my parts kit that came with the new gun and, at the same time, ordered a new one from Whiz White for $48 delivered, will be here Tuesday.

Having both K80 and Perazzi, which are both high quality guns, I much prefer the mechanical design of the Perazzi.
 
#6 ·
I have about 19,800 shells through my new MX8 when I noticed the cracked spring, pictured above. The thing that amazed me the most was how the gun continued to function perfectly, with no misfires, even with a cracked spring. I wonder how far it would have gone if I had just left it in the gun until it quit firing?
 
#9 ·
Perazzi springs are made with 21Kg of "strength" but they will work with a minimum of 13 Kg for this reason sometime even if it is cracked will make the gun go off.
The problems about Perazzi springs are not how they are made but the way they work in the trigger. I really doubt that Germans can make better springs, they can make the best military weapons but not springs.
The Italian spring manufactures make a lot springs for German companies.
 
#15 ·
Or you can ditch all that foreign made stuff and buy an American made Kolar.

Since 2004 over 100,000+ rounds and no problems. I'm almost ready to send it in for it's first annual service.
 
#16 ·
Realizing that 12 of the 15 medals won in the shooting part of the Olympics were won with Perazzi's. I didn't see but one K guns... anyone who is no "enlightened" to the Perazzi spring issue is, well, clueless.

Your spring breaks in the typical space. This is where the vibration of the spring ends, that is to say where the spring is statically mounted in/to the housing. That is where 99% of them break, and should break.

The NICE thing about leaf springs is that the DO BREAK. That is the tell-tale sign that it needs replacing-da! I ship Perazzi springs all over the world to shooters, some are big, big time shooters. In fact, in some countries like Australia and South Africa, they shoot their guns so much, I constantly ship rebuild parts to them. They are 100% content in shooting the P guns, and would not change to any other brand, for reasons mentioned herein.

Some of the Perazzi's had/have (can be special ordered) with coils. Problem with the coils is that do ON NOT break; they just get weaker and weaker and weaker. Pretty soon you find yourself missing targets, so then you start changing techniques; gun holds, stance, follow-through, etc. Then someone asks when's the last time you changed them, then you do, and presto, you are back in the groove.

I had this happen to me with my first Perazzi, a TM1, in 1974. Bought it at the Grand after winning some money. Later, I started to miss targets because I shot so fast, the hammer was not hitting hard on some shells. Then one of my Perazzi shooting squad mates asked the proverbial question: <i>"When's the last time you change the trigger spring."</i>

ALL springs lose tension the first minute they are installed, whether it be coils or leafs. To me it's like changing oil, or balancing your tires. You NEED to do that regularly and not because you have to, but because it depends on the use of the vehicle... or gun.

Perazzi's are designed to be shot, and have the hell shot out of them. Then, you can, through design, rebuild the gun to specs. Kim Rhode shoots a 12 year old Perazzi, and that gal shoots 1000 round A DAY. You think she waits until something happens (reactive), or through regular maintenance (proactive).

Some other guns, such as the K guns have so many parts in them, it's a nighmare to even think about it. Perazzi's are simple to repair or rebuild. When you wear out a Browning, you send it into the factory and wait... that is if you've not added a non-Browning accessory. They will not work on any gun that had even had its recoil pad altered.

I just have to laugh when someone say go to a K gun or some other gun because the leaf springs break. They don't have a clue on the gun's successes.

It takes, what, 1 minute to change the spring and they cost a whopping $43.39. On a $10,000 gun, that's pretty negligable. It's like on a $40,000 vehicle, you are hesitant to spend the $40 to change the oil.

Whiz
 
#17 ·
Gee Whiz,

I was only kidding. I happen to have 2 P guns. One broke while laying in the case. LOL

My hats off to those who can shoot doubles and change springs in between pairs.
 
#18 ·
Thanks Whiz for the information. I have an MX-8 that I bought in 1978 and of course I have had a few broken hammer springs. Had Giacomo replace a locking bolt and tune it up a few years ago when he was at the Missouri Fall Handicap.

It has served me well and I am still shooting it. I don't know how many shells has gone through it but a lot I am sure.

I understand what you mean about the "re-build" explanation also.

Thanks again,
Allen
 
#21 ·
At the completion of each shooting session I remove the trigger and gently let down the hammers, wipe the gun down and put it away. When I got my new gun, an old gentleman and retired mechanical engineer at my club, who has been shooting the same Perazzi for 40 years taught me how to let the hammers down. He explained to me that leaf springs, unlike coil springs which gradually get softer over time, maintain a constant tension until they break. He told me that if I would do it that way, I could detect any change in the tension when I let down the hammers and that I should change the spring. He said that in all his years of tournament shooting he had never had a leaf spring cause the gun to quit firing during a tournament event. Well, 2 years and 20,000 shells later, with my new gun, that is exactly what happened to me. Last week, when I let the hammers down, I immediately noticed that the right side spring was softer, but I went ahead and fired 200 more shells before changing it. When the old man told me that leaf springs maintain constant tension until they break, I was dubious, but when I put a new right hand spring in yesterday, I was amazed to find that I was unable to detect any difference in tension between the new spring and the original left side spring which I will be leaving in the gun until I detect a change it's tension.
 
#22 ·
The Perazzi V springs do get weak. I replace at least one every week when I do my one-handed hamer cocking test. I don't have a scale to measure the weight but I'm sure the weak spring compared to a new one is darn near 40-50% weaker.

As for removing the pressure from the spring to extend the life...I reaaly don't think so. It is the motion of the spring that causes the fatique. I've been working on a lot of European and Belgium S/Ss lately. For guns that are over a hundred years old, most of them still have quite stout mainsprings and top lever springs. They probably have spent most their lives constantly in the cocked position.
 
#23 ·
Wow, this is a really interesting discussion! Out of curiosity, I got the wife's bath floor scale which reads in tenths of a pound, a small block of wood, and attempted to see how much force was required to cock each hammer. Now, before you all say it isn't scientific, I agree, but I just wanted to do it anyway. I did it about 10 times on each hammer and took an average for the new right spring and the original left spring that has been the gun since I bought it new two years ago. The gun had 19,850 shells through it when the right spring cracked. I keep a spreadsheet on all targets that I shoot and I know that the right spring had 52% of those targets, but for the sake of argument lets just say it is 50%-50%.

The average cocking force required for the new, right side, spring was 14.1 pounds and the original left side spring was 13.7 pounds. This difference, I was unable to detect when I just let the hammers down gently, as I would, after shooting at the club.

I feel better about my decision to let the original left spring continue in the gun, since numerous people say that each spring behaves differently and some may last indefinitely.
 
#24 ·
I agreed with your decision.

As I mentioned before, based on the coach and on-site gunsmith of one Olympic training camp in Asia I visited couple years ago, some Perazzi springs break within two weeks and some last two years with an average 150,000~200,000 rounds per year on their range guns.

Here's a picture of the gun they loan me for the day while I was there, this MX-8 had over 2 million rounds through it, rebuild 3 times since new. They don't change springs till they break (between two weeks and two years).





 
#25 ·
Steve W said: "some Perazzi springs break within two weeks and some last two years with an average 150,000~200,000 rounds per year on their range guns."

Wow, I had no idea Olympic shooter's Perazzis saw such heavy use! I had heard that Kimberly Rhode shoots over 250,000 shells per year through hers, but I thought she was an exception.
 
#26 ·
Since there has been some discussion of various brands of guns, here are some comments, from shotgun world, from a man who has owned and shot most all of them. Mark was a top skeet shooter for many years. His comments below:

Comments courtesy of: Mark R_______

(Mark was two time Texas state skeet champion, was Texas high average leader several years, on several All American teams, Two 400X400, shot registered skeet tournaments from 1960's to 1995)

What makes a quality gun? Let's limit it to O/U skeet guns for now.

I have owned 3 Perazzis, one of which I shot a ton, like 6-700,000 shells in 8 years, 6 new and used Beretta o/u's of the 680 series, a couple of 3200 Remingtons, Kreighoff and 9 Browning o/u's of the Citori skeet variety. Had some Rugers too, 2 12 ga's , 2 in 20 ga. They were so junkie I will not go on about them. I will say I do not think they were made to be shot as much as a skeet shooter would shoot them.

My experiences:

The Perazzi was shot more than any other gun I have ever owned. As I stated before, it used a hammer spring that broke due to age, and one due to my stupidity of snapping it on an empty chamber when it was about 25 degrees. I eventually wore it out to the point the top lever was in the middle, but it still locked up tight and gave zero problems. Total cost of repairs while owning that gun, about $50.

I bought a used 682 from a local skeet shooter who had shot it for 10 years "on the circuit". It was really loose, but locked up as it should when closed. My wife shot it for 3-4 years, every time I shot, she shot. Never took a penny in repairs. All the Beretta's I have owned that were bought new, never cost us a penny to own. We have had to replace the rods which keep the hammer from falling too far on the bottom barrel of two of the used ones. That set us back $7.50 each and about twenty minutes to put them in.

The Remingtons.......After they got the, what used to be free, upgrade, for about $300 each, we tried to shoot skeet with them. Was great for a while, and then they nickle and dimed us for a few months for about $300 more apiece to keep them running, BYE-Bye to those puppies.

The Brownings..........All were new except one. It was 12 ga that would literally fall open if you touched the top lever, but stayed latched if you closed it. It did not open on it's own. One of the others was a barrel set that I shot exclusivley for 3-4 years. Never spent a penny on any of these, although I figure the one was ready to be redone. I sold it for more than I gave for it. Brwonings have one problem that bothers me, my sweat makes them rust like crazy. They have to drool oil or they rust if I'm going to handle them.

And the Kreighoff.........a money pit. It was bought used with a receipt included where it had just been gone through by Ottsville/Kreighoff and had all the springs replaced, etc.... an annual. My son shot it for about 2 months, 2-3 times a week, 6-15 rounds per trip. It was religiously cleaned and lubed per Kreighoff's instructions after every trip to the range. He is very gentle with it, never slams it shut or aything like that. That is not free, but I won't include it in cost of repairs, the bigger items are enough to raise the question to me. Decided to go to a 50 target shoot. Bought new ammo, Winchester was all we could find. About half the time the lower barrel would not fire the new ammo. Great, buy new ammo at the club, make it through the shoot. Call Kreighoff gunsmith, says maybe short or dirty firing pin, leads to trip to Dallas and another annual, total cost over $300. HMMMMM, no short firing pin though? Laid new firing pin next to old, looked the same. Measured the same. Maybe broken or weak spring in firing pin hole, replaced in annual. Better, but not fixed. My suspect is headspace. Dallas smith says no way. Gun would not close on NOGO gauge. Use reloaded or new Remingtons, no problem at all for the rest of the summer. Fall comes, at Mini, now gun has problem all the time. More than twice a round. Shooting backup Beretta a lot. Back to Kreighoff. $368 later, at RK, gun is better, but will have to have barrel reset in fall this year, headspace problem.......that will take 4-6 weeks and $600 or more dollars. Fixed in interim with nail polish. If my son did not just love that gun.........

And it's not just his gun.......We have a guy who comes out all the time to shoot at our place who has 3 K80's. He is meticulous about lubing and cleaning a gun. He has a beautiful Scroll grade that he has had for about 10 years. He will tell you that the best gun out there is a Beretta to shoot, but he just loves his K80, it is built to last. Then he gripes about how he has spent $3500 on annuals and last year an additional $2000 on having his barrels set back in PA. Why so high I asked? He said about $1000 for the work and another $1000 sending and insuring the gun both ways. Tell me how something you have to spend so much on to keep in operating condition is of such good, no strike that, great, quality?

I think the best quality skeet gun out there is probably a Beretta 680 series, certainly would have to look at a ASE 90 if they were still being made. Be interesting to see where the Blaser's wind up with a little age and use. Brownings are good too, I just like the feel of Beretta's better.

Sorry for being sooooo long.

Mark
 
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