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Muzzleloader Question..Which One?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by jimx200, Dec 22, 2008.

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  1. jimx200

    jimx200 Member

    Joined:
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    Looking for a black powder rifle for my soon to graduate college nephew. I'm trying to stay around the $250. range and found a good selection at Cabelas. Your experience and suggestion is appreciated. View here:
    http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/index/index-display.jsp?id=cat20815&navAction=jump&navCount=1&cmCat=MainCatcat20712&parentType=category&parentId=cat20712

    MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL
     
  2. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    I am prejudiced toward traditional styles and Thompson Center Hawkens (while not really traditional but close) can be had for your price point. I bought a Traditions inline bolt action for my kid a couple years ago for $150 at a Gander Mountain and it shoots quite well with pyrodex and 209 primers. Most of the "big name" guns like TC in the inline/break open are going for well over $400, same for Knight. I'm not too fond of the CVA or the Remingtons. If you want simplicity, the new TC Optima, I believe, would be good. Hand removable breech plug, inline-break open, fairly lightweight, easy scope mounting...probably available in the $350 range. Whichever one, they still have to be kept clean. Every time, after shooting, clean. Otherwise, it will end up as parts on ebay with the note, "some light pitting in the barrel, otherwise great!" Pitting in the barrel pretty much ruins accuracy.

    Good luck,
    Stan
     
  3. colobiggun

    colobiggun Active Member

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    I would spend the extra and buy a Thompson Center break open. I have a Triumph and absolutely love it, It feels good when you mount it, coming up like no other I tried. The ease of loading, cleaning, and maintenance make it worth every penny. The Remington Genesis fits your budget, and I know three people that recently bought them and love them. Even though I am a Remington man, I will stick with my T/C in this case.
     
  4. Old Texas Marine

    Old Texas Marine Member

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    Jim,

    I have a Thompson Center Black Mountain Magnum that I would sell for $250.00. It has the aperture rear sight and a trigger job that were installed/done by the T/C factory. The gun is a sidelock that will fire up to three pellets of Pyro or 150 gr. of back powder or BP substitute. It has a 1 in 28 twist for heavy conicals. I have musket cap and No.11 nipples for it.

    I would grade the gun at 98% and if interested I can email you photos. I have carried it on one elk hunt and have shot it less than 200 times. It comes with the original box and all paperwork.

    I bought an Encore and don't use the BMM anymore.

    HBT
     
  5. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Iowa man!!
    I have a "wind river magnum" I bought on close out from Cabelas 3 years ago for 69 bucks. It shoots lights out but is a pain to prime and clean. I think ease of operation and cleaning are really the only difference. I also have a Cabelas 50 cal Hawkins that handles round balls really good. It is a pretty good value if thats what you are after.
     
  6. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    When I started deer hunting, I used a Thompson Center Hawken .50 cal with the 24” octagon barrel and side cap lock. The gun had a 48” twist which meant that I could use .490 round ball, .50 cal conical or a .44 magnum pistol bullets in a sabot. My brother in law had a similar TC .50 cal White Mountain carbine. The carbine featured a round barrel and was about ½ pound lighter.


    Between the two of us, we took a lot of deer. He favored a 385 grain Hornady Buffalo Bullet and I preferred the Hornady 240 grain XTP pistol bullet. Using 90 grain of Pyrodex and the standard #11 percussion cap, either rifle was accurate and effective within 75 yards.


    Later on, I bought a Ruger 77/50 inline which allowed me to mount a Burris 3x9 scope. Using the Ruger, I could shoot 3 to 4 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards all day long using the Hornady 240 grain XTP pistol bullet in a sabot.

    For accuracy, I suggest that you weigh your charges instead of using a traditional volume measure. Also, the Thompson Centers had a sloppy, hard trigger while the Ruger 77/50 has a very light and crisp trigger.


    I don’t deer hunt anymore (my brother in law passed away) but I still play around with the two rifles on the range.


    Here are a few comments to consider.


    If you want to hunt at longer ranges and in all weather conditions, I suggest a scoped inline of .50 caliber capable of using 150 grains (3 50 grain pellets) of Pyrodex. This will give you an effective range of 125 – 150 yards which is a long shot with a muzzle loader.


    If you want tradition and low cost, it is hard to beat a new or used Thompson Center Hawken. If you hunt in the rain, you need to get the little plastic skirts that surround the cap and nipple. Also, you need to put masking tape or a "rubber - non lubricated" over the muzzle.


    If you are really into tradition, I would look for a Lyman Great Planes Rifle which has a longer barrel (28” I think) with a 66” twist that is for patched ball only.


    One of our hunting group used to use a .40 caliber flintlock and round ball. His rifle was in the Kentucky style (long barrel and smaller caliber to save lead) and he usually got a nice deer because he was a terrific hunter. He almost never came out of the woods and smelled like it to boot. He dug ginseng roots and tanned deer hides for extra money. He would have fit right in with old Dan’l Boon and the long hunters.


    Ed Ward
     
  7. b12

    b12 Well-Known Member

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    I just read a good report on the winchester X150. It was very favorable. I have a remington 700 ml. I still think the TC has most beat though. I own one several yrs ago and wish I still had it now. B12
     
  8. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    B12 is correct...it is hard to beat a TC.

    Mine is a .54 Renegade and with 100 grains of Goex FF either ball or conical will group into a cloverleaf, all 3 touching, at 100 yards....but I cheated and put a vernier tang sight on it!
     
  9. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    I have a T/C Omega and it puts three 250-grain Hornady SST saboted bullets into 1.5" at 100 yards at 2,100-some feet per second using three Triple Se7en pellets and a Federal 209A primer. Accuracy with Pyrodex was about 3.5" groups but velocity was a hair better. T/C's Shock Wave bullets weren't as accurate as the Hornadys.

    Having said all that, the Savage Model 10ML deserves a look. They will burn smokeless or black powder and I hear they are very accurate, too.

    Ed
     
  10. XP100

    XP100 Well-Known Member

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    Savage 10ML II. Very accurate and less cleaning.
     
  11. Hivoltfl

    Hivoltfl Member

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    I have a SS T/C Omega with a K-4 Weaver, real tree camo thumbhole stock I would part with, but not for 250. might consider trade for a BPS micro trap for my wife to shoot or maybe an 870 trap.

    Rick
     
  12. hoosier

    hoosier TS Member

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    What would your price be Rick?
     
  13. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    The Hornady SST 250 gr sabot is accurate in both Knights and TC's. Most shooters don't experiment with other bullet/ powder combinations to find what shoots best out of their gun. The Hornady SST 250 actually shoots better out of the Knights than the Knight Red Hots sponsored by Knight. Try different loads and find out what works.
     
  14. Hivoltfl

    Hivoltfl Member

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    hoosier I really would rather do a swap

    Rick
     
  15. Joe Woods

    Joe Woods Well-Known Member

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    Get a deal out there on Omega Z5/ Priced right. These threads could look confusing. Over the years there has been many good guns.Rem.700ML,Ruger 77/50.
    I have an original Knight MK85,bought in 1987,I still enjoy shooting it.It still uses #11 caps.Most or all guns today use 209's.Over the last 30 yrs. T/C has continued to make a premium product. Most guns today if kept clean, and the shooter spends the time to figure out what bullets work the best for his or her situation.All the best and merry Christmas.


    Joe Woods/Ontario
     
  16. Doug Brown

    Doug Brown Well-Known Member

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    For the ultimate get a "Bad Bull Muzzleloader" They are rather pricey, a friend of mine says his will shoot a 2" group at 300yds. I can't afford one so I have a T/C Encore, that will shoot a 1" group at 100yds, after some work was done to it. Use Parker bullets for the most accurate & best perfomance on game.
     
  17. ec90t

    ec90t Guest

    AveragED's and my Omega must be twins. His and mine shoot the same using the same load even down to the bullets. Hands down the most accurate muzzleloader for the money.

    ec90t
     
  18. Hydra

    Hydra TS Member

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    Remington makes a great loader and so does Austin and Halleck. I have see both guns from time to time in your price range.
     
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