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Mulligans ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Hammer1, Oct 20, 2012.

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  1. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    Know some folks who play golf.

    They tell me that trap's biggest shortcoming is that it doesn't allow mulligans.

    .
     
  2. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    I'm sure that all of us at one time or another would like a do-over. Aint gonna happen in competition.

    bob
     
  3. Barkingspider21

    Barkingspider21 Member

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    Open your mind just a little bit and read the rest of the rule further down the page and read what IS written there , not what you THINKNis written there or what you would like to see written there. Woody
     
  4. RWT

    RWT Well-Known Member

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    Sure we do, 2 per sub event.
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    FTF = Mulligan. Two per sub event = up to 8 per 100 target event. HMB
     
  6. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    Yep if you don't fire you get to do it over. But, if you pull(release) the trigger, there is no do-over. The one you missed is just missed. No mulligen just because you pointed wrong. A flinch is another story just don't pull the trigger. A mulligan in golf would let you do-over if you landed in the weeds or in the water. Just hit the ball bad, topped it, hit it fat, what-ever.

    Bob
     
  7. Avaldes

    Avaldes Well-Known Member

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    I still remember my first mulligen-less round of golf. It was very satisfying to know the score on the card was legit. And it led to even better scores down the road.
     
  8. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    There is no mulligan in trapshooting. A mulligan is a do-over, and there aren't any of those. The FTF is not a do-over.

    No respectible golfer uses mulligans.

    Scott
     
  9. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    zephyr and Mr. Calhoun are correct.

    Mulligans happen AFTER the fact. They negate the results of an established outcome thus preventing it from being recorded.

    Failures to fire are recored in advance of an established dead or lost outcome. Failures to fire don't negate either.

    sissy
     
  10. RWT

    RWT Well-Known Member

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    the FACT starts as soon as you say pull, if the bird is on time and you do not shoot: it is a do over= mulligan.
     
  11. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    If you want a "mulligan" you have to go over to the Skeet Field and take your "option"...

    Jay
     
  12. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    RWT:

    I would respectfully suggest anyone considering the failure to fire rule problematic should petition the ATA to modify or eliminate it.

    sissy
     
  13. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    A true Mulligan would be you fired the shot but got to do it over again. If you use a FTF there is nothing to do over!!!

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  14. RWT

    RWT Well-Known Member

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    RS

    not a problem for me, I shoot them all. If someone else want to take their two per sub event on a flinch, fine. I still think they are do overs= mulligan
     
  15. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    Well, I've shot about every shotgun game there is that has a rule book. To my knowledge, there is no game other than ATA trap that allows a shooter to not fire upon a legal target and not be penalized unless it is the fault of gun or ammo.

    Call a flinch "involuntary" if you want, you can't excape the fact that the resulting FTF is a consequence of the SHOOTER'S failure to fire....not the gun and not the ammo, not the ref or the guy on either side. It's the fault of the person on the trigger. Nor can you escape the fact that a trap shooter can VOLUNTARILY turn down targets and get away with it in a registered event. Eight times per hundred.

    Not even the skeeters that are made fun of here are allowed what they refer to as a "balk." Not even one.

    I'm not interested in changing the rule. As long as everybody plays by the same rules, I have no problem with the rules. I love rules. But I think it's about the "sissiest" thing I've ever heard of in clay shooting. Makes skeet shooters look like real men.
     
  16. Grayson Mayne

    Grayson Mayne Member

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    Jay either you don't know what a "FTF" is or you don't what the option is in skeet. Your post isn't worth the effort it took to type it.
     
  17. dhip

    dhip Active Member

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    AWWW,what the hey,,let's allow all dusted ones to be mulligans..You know the type,enough dust comes off the bird that mentally you know it should of broken..LMAO,,boy would that change things a bit.


    Doug H.
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "Call a flinch "involuntary" if you want, you can't excape the fact that the resulting FTF is a consequence of the SHOOTER'S failure to fire....not the gun and not the ammo, not the ref or the guy on either side. It's the fault of the person on the trigger. Nor can you escape the fact that a trap shooter can VOLUNTARILY turn down targets and get away with it in a registered event. Eight times per hundred."

    So tell us how do you prove the FTF is a consequence of the shooters failure to fire. Also how does a mechanical FTF differ from a shooters failure FTF. They are both a FTF. Are you ready to allow a teenage scorer that doesn't know the first thing about a shotgun. To do the proving?????

    Before the Rule was changed to FTF an ammo or gun problem was proved by the scorer. Which meant allowing a the score keeper to take the competitor's gun and find out if the trigger had been pulled or worse. Personally I don't feel real safe with that practice. I will in that event leave the FTF rule right where it is thank you. JMO

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    "So tell us how do you prove the FTF is a consequence of the shooters failure to fire."


    It ain't rocket science. If it was, the French couldn't have figured it out.

    The shooter remains in place with the gun pointed safely down range. The shooter touches no operating mecahanism on the gun...not the top lever, not the bolt on an autoloader, not the safety if so equipped. If he/she does, before the scorkeeper has instructed them, they have forfeited the chance at a legal malfunction.

    The scorekeeper arrives, and the shooter is instructed to push the safety off and/or point the gun downrange and pull the trigger. If the gun fires, it was shooter error and the score is lost.

    If the gun doesn't fire, the shooter is instructed to open the gun. If the chamber is empty, it's shooter error and the score is lost.

    If there is an unfired round in the gun, it is counted a malfunction; gun or ammo doesn't matter (to the scorer) which. Sporting, 5-stand and FITASC allow a total of 2 per event.

    At no time is the gun ever pointed anywhere but downrange and at no time does the scorekeeper ever touch the gun.

    BTW, SOME shooters are able to "trap" the trigger on an O/U, holding the trigger back after the first shot and not allowing the trigger to reset for the second shot. Clearly, this is an INVOLUNTARY action on the shooter's part, much like a flinch. But under the above guidelines the gun would fire when instructed to do so by the scorekeeper and it is treated as shooter error, resulting in lost target(s).

    So tell us why ATA is the only game that permits a shooter to not fire at a legal target even though there is no equipment malfunction.
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Well Mike a FTF is an FTF. Just what the words say whether involuntary or mechanical. It is all the same.

    "So tell us why ATA is the only game that permits a shooter to not fire at a legal target even though there is no equipment malfunction."

    As I said it is a safety issue. Unnecessary firing on the line is not a safe practice whether the shooter does it or the score keeper does it. The FTF rule elinanates the need for a shot to prove a gun malfunctioned.

    Being involved in trapshooting and not the other clay target sports the safety issue in trap is the one that concerns me. What the the rest insist on is their hang up and shouldn't concern trapshooters.

    Bob Lawless
     
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