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Mr. Winston- Would like your e-mail

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by JB Logan Co. Ohio, Jul 3, 2007.

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  1. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    Mr. Winston- I have a tech question I would like to discuss with you as to the correct placement of point "B" is when determining the 17 degree angle for correct target flight. The book says 1 ft. 6 in. or 2 ft. 6 in. from the front of the traphouse. I need some clarification. Could you e-mail me your address as I would like to find out once and for all how our fields are set. Thank you.

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
    XXXjerryb.lv@2access.netXXX work
    XXXjbnsuz@charter.netXXX home

    Drop the XXX's on each side
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Jerry, point B is, as you say, 18 or 30 inches from the front edge of the traphouse, and is used primarily to establish 49 to 51-yard target flight.

    The target, at rest, should be about as high, vertically, as the pad at post 3.

    As far as 17-degrees goes, I personally think that the number should be higher. Even at Metro in Blaine, where the traps are well above the former datum, I needed only 19 degrees. I think more use something like 21-plus.

    I've seen places, Metro again, and Alexandria as well, where setting by angle doesn't work at all, but heard of places where it does.

    Neil

    nwinstonatminndotnet
     
  3. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    Ok, here goes...I thought we should do this e-mail but I'm not afeared of discussing this openly. We have a few folks raising a stink at the club about targets that they think are illegal (too wide of an angle). We have LaPort 185's in our houses that fit the exact holes that housed the old Winchester hand load traps. We have measured a centerline down the trap that is in line with the center of post three and the 10 yd. stake for the t-bar for bird height. Coming back 2ft. 6in. on that centerline a 17 degree angle was drawn left and right of the centerline. Then a line was run out 20 yds off those angles and another stake was placed in the ground. The trap (in the 2 hole) was tripped at the extreme point left and right. The birds were just outside the 17 degree angle but well within the extra 5 degree (on each side) area of "legal". Are these legal targets? How would you recommend we tweak the field if need be? I would like the scuttlebut of "illegal" birds to stop as the club's business is down as much as anyone else's. We don't need anymore negativity...especially from one individual who dogs out to anyone who will listen. Sorry to rant but it gets tiring to try to throw a decent target and get complaints in return. Not looking for kudo's but not everyone understands what kind of time it takes to keep a club open. Thanks, I appreciate the comeback(s).

    I'll be gone on some deliveries for a bit but will be back on later this AM.

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  4. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    Yes, I saw it when Mr. Winston originally posted it but as he answered part of my question I had another. He must have not had time to answer my second question so I e-mailed him.

    Any other input as to flight angles with LaPorts? Anyone....anyone.....Beuller?

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Jerry, I didn't realize you were talking about horizontal, not vertical angle.

    Here's how to judge the horizontal angle and whether it is wider than the rules require. (That's a difference from your "legal" question, since even if target flight is wider than 17 degrees, they remain legal.)

    Go about 1/3+ of the way from post one toward post two. Throw some targets at maximum right angle and have some others with you to tell you what they see.

    The surprising thing is that not everyone will see the same target-flight. You may need a guide to help you, I'll make a photo of the rig we used at Sparta to finally disallow the extended PAT finger at the Team Shoot at Sparta last fall.

    I got most of the idea of looking at the first part of the target flight into part of the rulebook but see that the whole thing didn't quite make it. Nevertheless, what you want to look at is the early direction of the bird.

    If, indeed, after you do all this, most see the straightaway as being more from post post one than to the right of post one, before you decide anything, you have to duplicate the test from 1/3 of the way from post five to post four and checking the left max-angle target.

    It is possible, after all, that the trap is simply not centered and that will fool you. So you have to check that as described above.

    If most viewers say, finally, that the birds are "outside" from both right and left, then you still have legal targets, but wider than required.

    I've never seen the trap you have, so I've no idea what the fix - in the unlikely event one is actually needed - might be, but if you search for LaPorte on this site, you will find posts by an English representative of the brand who seems to know what he's talking about. I'd email him and ask what he recommends.

    Good luck, and sorry I misread your first question but it was written at about 6 AM at an abandoned gas station parking lot south of Pine Ridge in South Dakota and I was still half asleep.

    Neil
     
  6. JB Logan Co. Ohio

    JB Logan Co. Ohio TS Member

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    Mr. Winston, I appreciate your words of wisdom! This whole question only pertains to 2 hole registered targets. We have determined point "B" then put a 17 degree line off that mark (on each side) then a 22 degree line off the same "B" line. The next time someone brings this subject up I'll be able to take them out to the trap roof and show them where the birds exit the house. It may be just outside the 17 degree angle but well inside the 22 degree mark.

    Thanks again.

    JB=Jerry Beach 8503917
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Jerry, if they still complain, remind them that the most popular trap has _no_ set angle and so what they shoot at the club next door my or may not be done right, but rather depends entirely on the care of the club management checking them pretty often. If that doesn't work, send them to Trap 13 at (clubname) for a few events and they will come back loving your targets.

    Neil
     
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