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Most accurate out of the box

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by amboy49, Mar 28, 2013.

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  1. amboy49

    amboy49 Well-Known Member

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    As a much younger man I used to try to shoot "little bitty groups" in a paper target with a center fire .22 calibre rifle. Surprisingly, the most accurate rifle I owned was a Remington Model 721 in .222. This was a sporter weight gun but it would shoot m.o.a. all day long. I think I want to try this again. Looking for suggestions for the best "out of the box" centerfire rifle in the .22's. i.e. .222, .223, .22-.250, .220 swift, etc. I'll be reloading so I won't necessarily be concerned about acquiring ammo, hence suggestions for the .223 based soley on ammo availability won't be a determining factor.

    I'm inclined to look at something from Savage with the newer "accu trigger." I'll mount a mid-price scope and probably keep shots at 300 yards or less. Most likely staying at 100 yards. No hunting and noise won't be a factor. I'll probably glass bed the action - and will assume the barrel will be free floated from the factory.

    I do have a Remington Model 700 ADL .22-.250 that I haven't shot in 20 years. The gun is untouched - no modifications. Although I haven't shot this gun for quite awhile, I recall it was fairly accurate, but not a tack driver. Suggestions for gun make and caliber ?

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Savage with accu trigger and heavy fluted barrel. Get the laminated stock that looks like wood or is wood. Stay away from the squishy black plastic stocks. Allegedly, the .22-250 is a bit more accurate than the 220 Swift and the .222 is more accurate than the .223.

    I have a .220 Swift by Savage. It's about 15 years old, but he barrel is not shot out by any means, although I've not varminted in years. It is very accurate and is a single shot. The stiffness of action 'cause it's a single shot may help accuracy some.

    I'd get the .220 Swift "just because" it has the most "ooomph" and the brass is generally thicker than the brass used for the .22-250's. Modern powders make te .220 Swift much less of a barrel burner as compared to its prior reputation.

    The .223 is also excellent has has much better barrel life than either the .220 Swift of .22-250. And 223 brass is, I believe, stll easy to come by.

    Get good mounts and if you can, a Leupold scope. Put the scope on so it is not in a bind via a honing tool. Torque the action to the stock with a torque wrench (inch-poundf) for consistency. You may not have to glass bed the action. Get a Stoney Point bullet seating tool and some Sinclair case prep tools and a Dillon press and go for it!

    But maybe one day Savage will make a rifle in a PPC round; short and stubby and it's the choice of bench rest shooters. Now that would be really right on; we can only wish. Maybe Savage could make a .22 or 7mm PPC out of any custom shop order that they may offer?
     
  3. kiv-c

    kiv-c Member

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    Savages are great shooting rifles, despite their lower price. I've not been impressed with the AccuTrigger, but then I've only had one; I may have gotten the only crappy one out there. That would be my luck!

    I've owned a number of Ruger cf rifles over the years, none were stellar shooters. the worst was a 77V in .220 Swift that, in spite of employing every accuracy trick in the book, would not keep 5 shots in a 50-cent size group at 100 yards.

    I have yet to own a Remington 700 that wouldn't shoot decently right out of the box, and I've had a bunch over the years. My Rem 700 Classic in .222 Rem will shoot dime-size groups or smaller at 100 yards all day long. Same goes for a .250 Savage that I have. Both have taken their share of prairied dogs over the years!

    However, the most accurate rifle I have ever owned - bar non - was a lowly, bone-stock, Remington 788 in .222. I swear the damn thing shot well enough to be used for benchrest competition!

    Kiv
     
  4. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    No surprise regarding the 222. Arguably you can get the same accuracy with the 223 and the brass is easy to come by. Not a fan of the Savage but it has many followers. Think I'd be looking at the CZ's for a low end entry. Dust that Rem 700 off, it may find new life with a little tweaking.

    Robert
     
  5. K-EIGHTY

    K-EIGHTY Member

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    .22 PPC
     
  6. Slewcity

    Slewcity Member

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    I have a savage 204 accu triggerr that will shoot 1/2 MOA out of the box
    and I have a savage 300 win mag that will shoot 1 MOA out of the box all day long
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    You might take a look at the heavy barrel BOSS Browning. They typically shoot high two's.

    This target is from my 223 Varmint BOSS.
     
  8. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    The same gun in 308. Of course, I sold this one, like a dummy. I still have the 223.

    Moyers makes a trigger that will get down to ounces.
     
  9. Bvr Tail

    Bvr Tail Well-Known Member

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    My brain is a little fuzzy from my nightly meds, but just my quick math, and I believe Chango has described a $4-$5000.00 set-up with everything listed.

    I know there is great pleasure in bragging rights to a good group. but we're talking punching paper, here.

    I'd say dust off the 700 Remington, make some updates, and shoot their eyes out.

    Great gun, great caliber, already own one...........whats not to like?
     
  10. Crunch

    Crunch Member

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    I like a Cooper 21 in 204 Ruger. Most are quarter inch to half inch groups @ 4000fps. Coopers are beautifully made rifles. Super fun, fast, accurate, and nice looking.
     
  11. YOTESLAYER

    YOTESLAYER Member

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    I own all Savage CF rifles, I love everyone of them!!! The accu-trigger is second to nothing out of the box!! Look into a Savage 12BVSS in .223, a friend of mine bought one and that rifle is VERY accurate, 1/2 MOA all day long!! The price point is 25% of a custom Bench gun and they are the next closest thing!! I shoot a Savage model 12LPV DBM in .243 with the accutrigger and it will shoot Sub MOA out of the box with a Nikon Monarch scope. I would put my Savage/Nikon combo against any out of the box gun/scope combo on the market!!
     
  12. K-EIGHTY

    K-EIGHTY Member

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    I agree with Crunch. Only my Cooper 21 is in .22 PPC. It shoots great groups with factory Norma 52 grain loads. Great factory trigger and beautiful stock. A very under-rated rifle.
     
  13. FalconSprint

    FalconSprint TS Member

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    I have the single shot, heavy barrel, Accu trigger, laminated stock, Savage in .22 Hornet. Put a Nikon 4-12 scope with good rings and base. Once I found the reload that the gun liked, it will shoot 5 shots covered by a dime @ 100 yards all day long. Plenty good enough for me. Use 55gr. Hornady V-max bullets, Lit'l Gun powder, Federal Bench rest primers, Winchester brass. Load them 3 times and chuck them after the 3rd. shot. Bullet seating length was critical, but in a single shot gun, not a problem. Out to 175 yards, no Groundhog or Crow has yet to survive a single shot. Best rifle I have ever owned, period. It does need cleaning every 10 shots though.
     
  14. 4EVRYOUNG

    4EVRYOUNG Member

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    I have a Cooper I think Mod 21 in 22 Br with a either a 24 or 36 Bench rest Luepold on it all the brass and shells I have I would part with. I have resizing die and I am not sure what all else, Drop a line if you want me to dig it out.
     
  15. YOTESLAYER

    YOTESLAYER Member

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    You can have a custom rifle built, by a professional, for $900????? Who and where??? Ill try anything once!!!
     
  16. mike campbell

    mike campbell Active Member

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    I spent many thousands $$$ on custom-barreled varmint rigs. The keepers were Sakos, Rugers and Rem 40X's that were honest .25" guns, except I seldom shot them at 100yds. They had to be capable of putting 5 shots in <1 inch at 300 yds on a calm day. At one time, I had 7 such rigs.

    The last one I acquired, and the last one to go, was a Cooper .17 MachIV with a Jewel trigger. I had several Kimbers that were .5" guns but the Cooper was the only stock factory rifle I ever had that would shoot in the 2's every day.
     
  17. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    Oh, the set up I described was a used .220 Savage single shot Swift with "low miles", laminated wood stock. $300.00 I picked up a Leupold Vari-X 3 6.5-20 scope for $300.00 at a gun show I then bought Leupold rings and bases for whatever, maybe 70 bucks total from Mid South Supply. Added an aftermarket trigger for as recall, at the most !00 bucks, likely less. Lapped in the rings with a 25 dollar tool, and I had an inch pound torque wrench. I also relieved the barrel channel with sandpaper slightly to make sure barrel was floating. That was it. Loaded for it with 55 grain V-Max bullets, prepped brass, loaded on a Dillon 550 with a plain Jane Sierra die and used Varget powder. Typical 1/2 inch groups or better at 100 yards. Most importantly, in the field with a Harri bipod and shooting prone, I could hit groun squirrels easily all day long at 300 yards and some shots, if I could spot the 6 inch long target, out to about 350. The limit was my hunting/visual skills, not the due to the rifle.

    Let's see, add say, 25% to my cost back then and the total set up might be around $1100 to $1200 if one shops carefully. I have about 800 bucks in the set up if one counts the scope and rings in 1995 prices. Still have, of course, my favorite rifle, that Savage 220.
     
  18. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    I'd suggest that you reverse engineer the project...

    Look at Ballistic Coefficient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_coefficient)

    Find the best match (i.e., the highest BC that meets your needs) and then determine which round best meets that design in terms of velocity and twist rates.

    From there find the rifle/caliber combination that gives you what you want.

    Be cautious - http://arxiv.org/pdf/0705.0389.pdf

    In terms of 'accurate out of the box' I think you are being a bit naive...

    First, there is variability between identical rifles from the same manufacturer. I cannot count the times where I have heard two people speaking of 'the best rifle I've ever owned' and 'the worst rifle I've ever owned' when in fact they were talking of the EXACT same rifle - same model, same caliber, etc. (e.g., Rugers - why is that?). There will be variability between every product made - this is especially true for something where we demand high accuracy. Just think of the wear factor on the tooling for boring barrels, cutting rifling, cutting chambers - is this rifle the first to be done with the tooling or the last?? - It makes a difference.

    Next look at assembly - I'll pick one piece to illustrate - barrel channel in the stock - is it free floated, bedded, or just sitting there? This matters in terms of accuracy. So does the stock material (wood, plastic, fiberglass...). Are you planning to live with it as it is, or will you evaluate it and correct if needed??

    How do YOU interact with the rifle?? I am partial to Sako actions - but there is a "flaw" in the older ones for some people - they had only two bolt lugs (like Rugers) and as such if you moved the bolt the wrong way it would jam - lock-up. I've a friend who can make this happen with every one - I on the other hand cannot do it (OK, I can, but I really need to think about it and work at it to make it happen - in the course of normal shooting - NEVER).

    COST - why do you think some rifles can be had for a few hundred dollars, while another in the same caliber is several thousand?? The manufacturers know all of this and they need to balance cost against customer's wants. You will get what you pay for.

    When I was buying a lot of rifles I went for Sakos - this was a time when the Remington 700 was king. My logic was the Sako came with a truly free floated barrel (and detachable magazines!) and one hell of a trigger (even 'single set'). The Sako cost just a bit more than the Remington, but out of the box it was much better. The Remington needed a trigger or trigger job and the action needed to be bedded as well as clearing the barrel channel - by the time this was all done and paid for the Sako was a cheaper gun that shot just as well right out of the box.

    -

    OPTICS

    Spend as much if not more on the optics as you do for everything else in the package.

    I've given up counting the number of times someone asks me to look at their rifle - "'cause it just don't shoot straight" only to find that the rifle was fine - the scope sucked (I keep a fixed 8X Leupold that I swap out all the time to prove this point).

    Go with big, good names - Zeiss, Swarovski, Steiner - I am a new fan of Trijicon...

    OK at best - Leupold, Nikon

    Bushnell, Burris, Tasco - basically junk

    There are others, but I hope you get my intent.

    -

    So, to answer your question the two rifles I am most impressed with as value (ACCURACY) per buck spent are Tikka and Accu-Trigger Savages.

    I built a rifle for a hunting trip to England - Tikka T3 in 243, Trijicon AccuPoint 2.5 ~ 10 X 56, Game Reapper mounts, and T8 moderator (it is used in the UK - they WANT you to use moderators!) for under $1,000.

    This still need to have the barrel channel cleared (there was a bit of excess plastic that pressed on the barrel when I shot it (I am left handed), it did NOT press for right handed shooters. We also needed to adjust the trigger and clear the trigger channel in the stock. Factory mounts (Sako) were a pain so we eventually went with the Game Reapper.

    Regardless, be willing to spend some time and/or money bringing the best out of the rifle you buy - don't sell yourself short on this one.
     
  19. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Hard to beat Savage....and they're not "cheap" any more.

    Jb
     
  20. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Laminated stock Savage. The 12BCTSS is quite lovely, thumbhole stock with vented forend.
    If you want to step up a notch get the models with the H-S Precision stock, bedding blocks, and the Target Accutrigger.

    The 223 is twisted for heavy bullets at 9. In 22-250 you can choose 9 or 12.

    If you want to go beyond .224 bullets a 260 or a 6.5 Creedmore will make the bullets with the best BC available, they are nice and long with good long range potential.

    Whie Remington has tried to innovate for the cheapskate with rifles like the 770 and the SPS built to a price point, Savage has gone the extra mile with rifles built to a level that used to take a lot of work to get to.

    I have a couple of great Remington varmint rifles, but the last few have been Savage with excellent results.

    HM
     
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