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More Wad Pressure BLOG

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by JACK, Oct 24, 2011.

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  1. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    I load STS with 1-1/16 oz lead simply because I like shells that appear new like. Adn filling them with 1-1/8 usually overflows and a poor crimp is the reslult. It messes with my mind if the shell doesn't look good. So I experimented with Versalite wads and they have a larger powder cup, and a not as tall shot cup. I nudged the wad pressure tube to just barely move on the down stroke and here is what I ended up with. Have not shot these as yet, but if they shoot as good as they look, I will shoot them all winter and perhaps longer if I am mentally in tune with them. Once fired STS hull, Win 209, Versalite wad, 18.5 grs of Clays from a MEC 33B bushing.
    [​IMG]
    Then I ran a half dozen once fired grey AAs withe the same stuff...
    [​IMG]
    They did not come out as nice, but perhaps a bit more crimp starter might fix the slight bulge. I could use an opinion here. Adn here is the crimp starter in the loader...
    [​IMG]
     
  2. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    What's the overall length of the Versalite wad? The AA hull has less internal capacity than the STS hulls and depending on the powder you use the wad may be a bit too tall for the components in the AA hull. That would account for the bulge.

    I load 1 oz in both hulls and I can use the same wad in the Remington hull I use in the AA but not the other way around IF I want a wad that fills the hull. Specifically, CBs WAA12-SL clone works fine in the Remington hull but is too tall for good crimps in the AA; the DR DRA-12 wad wad makes great crimps in the AA but the crimps are slightly dished when I use that wad in Remingtons.

    Mike K
     
  3. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Mike.What is the gold F8?
     
  4. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    That the new color of Kevin's Downrange F-8 wads.

    Mike K
     
  5. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    The overall top to bottom length is exactly 1-3/4"

    The shot cup depth is exactly 13/16"

    But the design component that stands out is that the over powder cup has more capacity than the typical dome style powder cup in F8s an most others that I use/
     
  6. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    I have also found that I get much better crimps on the new AA hulls if I use a smooth cone crimp started rather than an 8-point starter.

    When Winchester introduced the new hulls they published instructions for reloading them on their web site and indicated that more crimp starter pressure was needed with the new plastic than with the old. I ended up using enough crimp pressure that the hulls were almost closed before they got to the final crimp station (P-W press).

    The smooth cone crimp starter (used for paper hulls) makes a taller crimp section with less angle than the 8 point and I get closed crimps (no holes) with it. It also works well on Remington hulls so I use it for everything now. I know that MEC sells one for their loaders.
    <center>[​IMG][​IMG]</center>
    I had something different in mind when I included the photo of the F-8. I should have done a side-by-side with the DRA-12 to compare shot cup depths, but it's hard to get a good comparison from these photos. I think the powder cup of the DRA-12 look closer to the Versalite but without one in my hand to compare I can't say for sure. If it follows the design of the 1 oz DRA wad, the 1 1/8 DRA should be a bit shorter than wads that work WELL in the Remington hulls to compensate for the reduced capacity of the new AA hull.

    Mike K
     
  7. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    This photo might give some perspective on the differences in the shots cups of some of the wads I have. All are 1 oz wads.

    I don't use the F-8 wad (far right) in the new 2-piece AA hulls because it's just too tall. The wad on the left is the Downrange DRA-12 1 oz (WAA12-SL) designed specifically to fit the new hull. Next is the DR XL-1 1 oz wad that fits both the AA and Remington hulls (How well depends a lot on the powder used). Next is CB version of the WAA12-SL. It retains the dimensions that fit well in the old AA 1-piece hull. It works better in Remington hulls than it does in new AA hulls.

    You can see the how different the powder cup of the Downrange DRA-12 wad is from the other three. If it's the same as the powder cup if the 1 1/8 oz version of the wad it should be the best choice for use in the AA hulls.


    It's been my experience that except for the XL-1 wads, wads that fit well in Remington hulls are too tall to fit well with the same powder in AA hulls.

    Mike K
     
  8. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I have given up loading AA hulls with 1 1/8oz shot. It is almost impossible to get a good crimp with Green Dot or International Clays. If I lower the pre-crimp, 1 of 5 loads have a bad crimp. If I lower the final crimp, the hull buckels.

    My 1 oz load with the AASL wad and 18 grains of Red Dot crimps ok.

    Obviously Winchester didn't care if their cases were reloadable, and why would they.
     
  9. skeeljc

    skeeljc Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    Wad pressure does not exist with plastic wads and plastic hulls! The inside of the plastic hull will not grip the plastic wad. The wad structure between the powder seal and the shot cup will spring back after being compressed.

    You cannot compensate for too much component volume with wad pressure. The components (powder, wad, shot) must be sized to fit the hull's internal volume.

    Jim Skeel<BR>
    P/W Dealer/Distributor
     
  10. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Mike K

    I think the wad on the right is a DRRT12, which is a replacement for the TGT-12s, not the Figure 8.

    But you're right, it is a 1 ounce load (though it can be used for 1-1/8 ounce with dense powders.)
     
  11. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    Yeah, Tim, you're right...it's the RT-12.

    Since I only ever use them for 1 oz loads, they're F-8s to me.

    Didn't intend to misinform.

    Mike K
     
  12. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    No problem. I like that wad for my 1-1/8 ounce handicap loads with Titegroup.
     
  13. APrice

    APrice Active Member

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    Never heard of a 33B MEC bushing. MEC doesn't list one on their site. Where did you get it?
     
  14. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    MIA, From what I see in your pics, you need more pre-crimp. The AA's should have a smaller hole in the middle and the Rem's should swirl at the center.

    Jim, yes, and some think that the wad springing back up is a wad problem.
     
  15. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    "<I>MIA, From what I see in your pics, you need more pre-crimp. The AA's should have a smaller hole in the middle and the Rem's should swirl at the center.</I>"

    This is where the smooth cone crimp starter is useful. You can add more pre-crimp to a hull without mashing the top almost closed. The smooth cone is a longer less tapered cone inside. It adds pre-crimp to the crimp shoulders rather than by pushing the crimp folds further closed. I haven't used an 8-point starter in years.

    Mike K
     
  16. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Does MEC sell this smooth cone crimp starter?

    As stated before, I've tried lowering the precrimp and it didn't help. I've lowered the final crimp and it started to bulge/crease the hulls.

    Always still have a hole in the crimp and the center of the crimp is slightly raised (like MIA's picture) 19.2 International Clays, AAwad and hull. Also does it with 20.5 Green dot and AA or windjammer wad. Both are 1 1/8oz loads.

    I'm beginning to wonder if Winchester stretches their plastic when they load!!!
     
  17. MKillian

    MKillian TS Member

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    <I>"Does MEC sell this smooth cone crimp starter?"</I>

    It's in the current parts list for the 9000G (and probably other models, too). <center>
    [​IMG]
    </center>

    Mike K
     
  18. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    APrice. Good question. I have 3 I think. 2 for sure. the 33B is really a "go-to" for many hcp loads with PB, GD and in this case Clays. I"ll send you a PM
     
  19. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    setterman, lowering the precrimp die puts more plastic in the crimp area and allows the final crimp die to close hole in the middle. I precrimp down to about an 1/8 in hole. Lowering the final crimp die only just puts too much pressure on the hull and causes the problems you mention.

    I have never noticed a AA stretching.
     
  20. wlc

    wlc Member

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    I've used the AA wads for 1-1/4 oz shot and CB clones in the AAHS hulls with 1-1/8 oz shot and American Select powder with good results. There is enough extra room to get a good crimp. The AA12 for 1-1/8 oz shot work nice with 1-1/16 oz of shot.
     
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