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More on the proposed California lead ban expansion

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by wireguy, Jun 15, 2009.

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  1. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Multiple Organization Alert

    CAL-ERT 06/12/09 --- Noon
    This information is accurate at the time this CAL-ERT was written and originally distributed. The NRA Members' Councils of California and the California Rifle and Pistol Association have issued this alert in a cooperative effort and will keep you informed as issues affect your gun-rights in California.

    On February 5, 2009, we informed you that the California Fish and Game Commission was considering a state-wide ban on the use of lead ammunition for hunting. After a ban on the use of lead ammunition for hunting in areas occupied by the California condor (AB821) was signed into law in 2007, the Commission used its hunting regulations to unnecessarily extend the ban to include .22 rimfire ammunition and to expand the boundaries where the ban applies.

    From the beginning, proponents of the current ban have wanted lead ammunition banned state-wide. The California condor was simply being used as an excuse by the anti-hunters and anti-gunners to carry out this agenda. They have already achieved a partial ban. Their ultimate goal is to take the ban state-wide! If they are successful, they will push to ban the use of lead ammunition for everyone, not just hunters.

    Strange as it may seem, the California Fish and Game Commission is denying that a state-wide ban is being considered.

    In fact, the exact statement is "Contrary to stories circulating the Internet, the Fish and Game Commission is NOT considering a Statewide ban of lead ammunition in California." They have also said, "Contrary to action alerts sent by Nation Riffle Association [sic] and California Riffle and Pistol Association, [sic] the Fish and Game Commission is NOT considering a Statewide ban of lead ammunition in California."

    The only reasonable explanation is that someone is quite misinformed, or someone is not being forthright with their responses.

    How do California's hunters, shooters, and sportsmen learn the real story?

    Pamela Flick of The Defenders of Wildlife proves CFG Commissioner Kellogg right: It's not about the condors; it's about banning lead ammo.

    Who will tell the public the facts regarding this important matter? WE WILL! ! !

    If a Fish and Game Commissioner, during the hearing, would actually suggest and/or attempt to place the issue of a state-wide lead ammunition ban on an upcoming Commission agenda, we would know for sure and be able to prove that the threat is real.

    That is exactly what California Fish and Game Commission member Michael Sutton suggested on February 5, 2009!

    As everyone can see, by viewing this video, Commissioner Sutton agreed with the extremist views of the radical environmental groups when among other things, he stated, "....then I'm going to suggest that we agendize this........and consideration of possible further action."

    He was responding to the calls for a state-wide lead ammunition ban! (see video above)

    After some rather strong discussion, Commissioner Sutton backed-away from his attempt to place a state-wide lead ammunition ban on the agenda. He, and others on the commission who have voted for lead ammunition bans in the past, appeared to attempt to justify possible future actions by stating that they didn't want "...to get ahead of the science."

    But there isn't any valid scientific studies that justify the existing or future lead ammunition bans. And simply responding with such extreme measures, based upon questionable data and rhetoric is bad public policy in any venue.

    CFG commissioners Rogers and Sutton are doing their best to get out in front of the science. Of course, they fervently deny that this is what they're doing, but it's hard to reach any other conclusion. What else should we conclude when Sutton asks if the staff's report will be done in time to vote on the issue? Or when he pushes to "agendize" a statewide lead ammo before the scientists release their findings?

    So, where does this leave shooters, hunters, and sportsmen, in the Golden State?

    After the California Alert System notification on February 5, 2009 received general circulation, sportsmen from across the state contacted the Fish and Game and they have not publicly proposed considering a "state-wide" ban since that February 5, 2009 meeting.

    As a result of negotiations with environmental groups who support the banning of lead ammunition, the California Fish and Game has agreed to place on the Commission's Agenda, an expansion of the lead ammunition ban within the so-called "Condor Zone." Lead ammunition ban proponents are hoping to receive the support of the same commissioners who voted their way on the current lead ammunition ban regulations. California's sportsmen must inform the Fish and Game Commission that more bans on lead ammunition is not the right thing to do and will not go unnoticed.

    There is no scientific evidence that lead ammunition is the source of lead affecting the health of condors released to the wild. There is no scientific evidence that lead ammunition is a risk to human health and the environment in California. What is evident is that there are a group of special interests that have friends on the Commission who will not stop until the most affordable, available, and balistically superior ammunition available is banned in our state. When that happens they know the damage it will do to hunting and shooting participation.


    Please write AND call the California Fish and Game Commission and request that they oppose all efforts to expand the ban on lead ammunition.

    If you can attend the Fish and Game Commission meetings on June 24th & 25th, in Woodland, CA., PLEASE ATTEND and let your voice be heard. Inform the Commissioners that you do not support any expansion of the Lead Ammunition Ban in California.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: Although the NRA and CRPA vigorously opposed AB821 back in 2007, it is now law. However, it is unfortunate that the CA. Fish & Game Commission expanded the restrictions much farther than those required by AB821. Therefore, the NRA and CRPA urge you to contact the CA. Fish & Game Commission and voice your opposition to even more enhanced restrictions that exceed the scope and intent of AB821. If we do not stop them from expanding the ban now, how are we going to stop them from banning Lead Ammunition state-wide? Now is the time to act!

    Next Meeting Location:
    Yolo Fliers Club
    17980 County Road 94B
    Woodland, California, 95695

    Click on this MAP LINK for driving directions and a detailed map to the meeting location.

    Mailing Address:
    California Fish and Game Commission
    1416 Ninth Street
    P.O. Box 944209
    Sacramento, CA 94244-2090

    Phone Number:
    (916) 653-4899

    Fax Number:
    (916) 653-5040

    E-Mail: (Please include "Expansion of Lead Ammo Ban" in the e-mail subject line.)
    Submit written comments, via electronic mail to:
    John Carlson, Jr., Executive Director fgc@fgc.ca.gov
    Jon K. Fischer, Deputy Executive Director - Regulations and Policy jfischer@fgc.ca.gov
    Adrianna Shea, Deputy Executive Director - Special Advisor to the Commissioners ashea@fgc.ca.gov

    Note: If you prefer to send only one email, you can send a single email to the Fish and Game representatives by using the special "ONE CLICK" email address that you can find HERE . By sending one email to the special "ONE CLICK" address, each one of the Fish and Game representatives (listed above) will receive a copy of your message (so it is probably a good idea to address your messages with: Dear Fish & Game Commission,).
  2. waterhouselake

    waterhouselake TS Member

    Apr 2, 2006
    California hunters need to boycott hunting licenses. tags, etc and starve this piss poor managed state government even more. Give these bastards nothing.....
  3. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2007
    Hanford, CA
    Yeah...the DFG snuck in that .22 ban. It was not in the original bill. The whole mess stinks. The DFG has not been supportive of hunting for many years.
  4. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

    Jan 29, 1998

  5. Haskins Bill

    Haskins Bill TS Member

    Nov 4, 2007
    Hmm I guess if there were no more Condors in the state then they could not use them as an excuse to ban lead ammo. Especially if they died of copper poisioning or steel or bismuth or whatever. Maybe strychnine in a coyote carcass. Just a thought and it is 2000 miles from where I live so I can not help out with the 'project'. I had an Email quite some time ago from England and it dealt with how locals handle red light and speed cameras. It seems a driver with a passenger in the back of a pick up would approach one of these cameras with an old tire and some gasoline and hang it on the camera and apply a match. No more camera. You get the idea, don't like something that is just plain wrong then do something about it, either at the ballot box or on your own. Bill
  6. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    Why, Bill, in Oregon we call that "The Three S's".<br>
    Shoot it.<br>
    Shovel it.<br>
    Shut up about it.<br>
    A few years back, we had a lot of small woodlots suddenly being clearcut. In fact, they almost produced a glut of timber on the market, but didn't because of all the forest lots that were shut down due to lawsuits. The reason for all this logging was that the woodlot owners were people who bought the property and were using it as a retirement hedge. It was their intention to eventually sell the timber and then develop the property and move onto it or sell it.<br>
    Suddenly we had a rash of self-appointed "scientists" who were trespassing onto private property, taking "inventory" of spotted owls with video cameras. Their goal was to use this "inventory" as evidence in lawsuits to prevent woodlot from logging their own land.<br>
    This started two things: A stampede of panicked landowners suddenly clear cutting every tree off their property. And the mysterious disappearance of a lot of spotted owls.<br>
  7. 22hornet

    22hornet Well-Known Member

    Jun 22, 2007
    Hanford, CA
    A few more years, Curt, and I am. Unfortunately, my destination(Pennsylvania) is starting to look more and more like California.
  8. cafowler

    cafowler Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Thanks for posting this up here. I'd heard a little about this, but hadn't seen anything in writing or understood why it was a curent topic.

    I work close to the location the meeting is held, and depending on their schedule and mine, I may go during the public comments time and address this issue.

    The F&G Commission in our state is basically a friends of the Gov club, as I understand it. He puts the names forward, and the state senate votes on the nominee. You have to look at who our Gov is, where his true political views lie. I understand this may be a small issue compared to the true positions of the commissioner noted above relative to the state coastal fisheries. The Salmon season was closed last year, we had a Fed Judge stop all water shipments thru the delta to the south farmers and LA due to a threatened fish that many believe to be a symbol of the health of the delta, which some would have you believe is on the verge of a total collapse of an ecosystem.

    The F&G Comm is seperate from the CA Dept of F&G, the Commission sets the laws the Dept has to enforce. If everyone stops buying hunting or fishing liscenses, it would have no effect on the actions the Commission takes. The Dept is already starved for funding, looking to outside sources like DU or CWA to help them fund banding or research projects. This state has the lowest number of Wardens per capita or based on the area of the state. They hired a slew of new young wardens in the last few years, and now I hear they are all about to get layed off due to the state budget fiasco, or the fact we are bankrupt. I think there's less than 100 Wardens to cover the entire state and ocean fisheries? Most of them are up on the North coast right now due to Abalone season, where much poaching goes on, usually by recent immigrants who don't see anything wrong with making a $100k by selling poached abs to the restaurants in the bay area.

    The Dept head does all she can to hold a rag-tag dept together to protect a number of major issues in the state and the resources.

    It is my belief there are a number of members of the Commission right now that are liberal biased, and do not have the interests of the hunter/fisherman at heart, no difference if they are commercial or recreational, but do believe the liberal greenie agenda to be their true manifest. How you stop someone like this that is already appointed is beyond me. Until there is a new gov, and their position expires, they are gold, nothing you can do. All private wildlife organizations do serious background checks on a nominee, and word goes out to everyone about contacting the senate before their appointment vote is cast.

    I've heard one of the commissioners has an ownership in the Montery Bay Aquarium, and is backed by The Packard Foundation, of HP Computer founder fame. He/they have an agenda to close the entire CA coast to commercial fishing permanently. This sounds incredible, but there are those that claim this can be proved. Just more liberal, anti business attitude put forward by big time wealthy liberals.
  9. Don Steele

    Don Steele Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 1998
    Florida's beautiful E. Coast
    How about a show of hands....
    Is ANYBODY out there suprised to find a California Government agency trying to ban ammunition...????
    You live in California...you get this stuff. I'll ask the same question I've posed everytime one of these looney ideas pops up nationwide...( and there's been quite a few lately...!!)
    WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO DO...???? I mean beyond stting at home pounding your keyboard....????
    Shooters,Hunters, Fishermen...generally moderate/conservative types who liked America just fine better wake up and GO ON THE ATTACK...
    Your lifestyle and beliefs are under a BLITZKREIG ASSAULT by people who are more than willing to get out and MAKE CHANGE HAPPEN. By the time you wake up and see it...it's gonna be too late.
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