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More Gun Control?NO Better Mental Laws? YES

Discussion in 'Off Topic Threads' started by Auctioneer, Jan 16, 2011.

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  1. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    I don't blame the gun in Va Tec shooting. I don't blame the gun in the Arizona shooting. I blame the damn mental laws. The doctors are not permited to say a word about anyone who is a danger to the public. In both cases the gun shop did by law what they were told they could do. The gun shop didn't do a thing wrong but we gun owners will have to pay for this. The mental laws have to be changed before any gun laws.
     
  2. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    The shooter had tried to enlist in the Army, but was denied because he had a drug problem. So, not only was he wacko, he was an addict. On Meet the Press today, Shumer said there should have been a requirement for the
    Army to contact the FBI and get him on the national "no sell" list.

    And of course, he says any "Clips" able to hold more than 10 rounds should be illegal. Why do the anti's always call them clips?
     
  3. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Then there are some Doctors, that would claim you are unstable, just for having guns.

    Who gets to decide?

    So, if anyone has used drugs in the past, they should lose their gun ownership rights??? That's what I'm hearing here and in the media......I almost agree.

    How about a piss test to buy a firearm?....sounds OK to me, after all you have to be tested to have or keep most employment today. The military does not trust you or want you if your a doper.....so why would you be stable enough to posses firearms????

    .
     
  4. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    In this case there was a Sheriff that needs a mental exam. After completely dropping the ball, before the blood was even done flowing he was ranting about talk radio and conservatives.

    Tucson people need a recall election.

    HM
     
  5. Sam Ogle

    Sam Ogle Member

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    Each proffered decision is bad.
    Just let the liberals rant for a while, then it will die down.
    Their comments are enough to rile any shooter, but with a Republican controlled house, there aren't going to be any bills come out of there if we contact our House of Representative for our state when we REALLY hear of a REAL bill being proposed. (We get these "sky is falling" deals every now and then on a bill that died in committee three years ago.
    We simply have to unite and say NO!!
    I saw a lib ranting that no individual should have more than thirty rounds of ammunition.....that'd shorten our shooting day. So,we can't go to sleep, just have to remain firm. No new laws. No new feel good legislation. No going back to the ban.
    Mental illness and who should be prohibited from owning guns is a slippery slope.
    How many of us has had someone say "He's a crazy one." Not really meaning shooting people insane, just more along the lines of "He's a wild and crazy guy."
    So, we have to be careful........if the wrong people heard this and these new proposals were put into effect, they would probably ban 99.9% of all of us trapshooters.
    Stay the course....contact your representatives and Senators and say "NO, we don't want new laws."
    Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE
     
  6. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Well, you can blame the great one "Ronnie Reagan" for the beginning of the Wacko's on the street mentality. When he was Governor of California he began the return of the Wacko's back to the street program. And closed down maybe the finest mental health system in the world. Which just about every state followed in the next 20 years. He claimed it was to expensive to house and lock them up. ERGO; the street nut's, we see everywhere, and no place to send the kid that shot the Senator.
     
  7. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    So who is going to make the call on weather your a nut job or a sane one?

    Let liberals on the panel and you know what will happen! Alot of mental heath people are not stable either. Most Physc. Dr's have to have other Physc. Dr's keep them in check.

    So back to the question, who do you want to make the call on who is nut and who isn't?
     
  8. noknock1

    noknock1 Active Member

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    Part of the problem is the HIPPA laws... These laws go too far when it comes to privacy.

    What would help.... would be the various prescription networks out there. These networks could very easily be programmed to shoot information on various drugs for hardcore psychiatric treatment to NICS for a flag...

    I think that if a patient is prescribed something like: Seroquel (Quetiapine), Haldol (Haloperidol), Thorazine (Chlorpromazine, Lithium (Eskalith, Lithobid), and a dozen or more other drugs then that person should be flagged from an immediate purchase...

    I am not talking about Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Welbutrin, etc... because a fellow is MILDLY depressed and is going through a temporary stressful time, etc...

    I am talking about true Psychosis like schizophrenia, paranoid hallucinations, etc...

    It would be easy enough with the few online prescription software that is in use nationwide by pharmacies and doctors. It may not be a perfect system but it would have stopped this idiot, the West VA Tech shooter who was on prescription psycho meds, it would have stopped Hinkley who some believed was withdrawing from psycho meds, etc...
     
  9. 9point3

    9point3 Well-Known Member

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    Addicts should not own guns, that includes those who smoke, chew or need that early morning coffee. Just kidding but its something to think about
     
  10. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    The system is fine. We just need big mouth, politically motivated, sheriffs to do their job.
     
  11. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    noknock1.....Interesting that you mention "Seroquel"......The military openly gives that to our soldiers going to Iraq and Afganistan.
     
  12. noknock1

    noknock1 Active Member

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    221, Wow, how do you know this to be true? If indeed this drug is being openly given to our soldiers before they even go overseas, then we as a nation may face a terrible crisis once these vets are back and end up not taking the meds for whatever reason.

    Regardless, vet or not, if a person is hearing voices, is a manic depressive with suicidal thoughts, etc.. I am not sure that putting a hold on their purchase of a firearm is a bad thing until they are literally sane.



    This is a pretty serious drug, here is a cut and paste from the manufacturer website...

    "Why is this medication prescribed?
    Quetiapine tablets and extended-release (long-acting) tablets are used to treat the symptoms of schizophrenia (a mental illness that causes disturbed or unusual thinking, loss of interest in life, and strong or inappropriate emotions). Quetiapine tablets and extended-release tablets are also used alone or with other medications to treat or prevent episodes of mania (frenzied, abnormally excited or irritated mood) or depression in patients with bipolar disorder (manic depressive disorder; a disease that causes episodes of depression, episodes of mania, and other abnormal moods). Quetiapine extended-release tablets are also used along with other medications to treat depression. Quetiapine tablets may be used as part of a treatment program to treat bipolar disorder and schizophrenia in children. Quetiapine is in a class of medications called atypical antipsychotics. It works by changing the activity of certain natural substances in the brain."

    The possible side effects are some of the worst... Cut and paste follows:

    "You should know that your mental health may change in unexpected ways when you take quetiapine or other antidepressants even if you are an adult over age 24. You may become suicidal, especially at the beginning of your treatment and any time that your dose is increased or decreased. You, your family, or your caregiver should call your doctor right away if you experience any of the following symptoms: new or worsening depression; thinking about harming or killing yourself, or planning or trying to do so; extreme worry; agitation; panic attacks; difficulty falling asleep or staying asleep; aggressive behavior; irritability; acting without thinking; severe restlessness; and frenzied abnormal excitement. Be sure that your family or caregiver knows which symptoms may be serious so they can call the doctor when you are unable to seek treatment on your own."





    I am not a medical doctor and did not mean to imply this should be a final list, there are elected pro-gun Medical Doctors that can hash out the final list.

    I just know that when I fill out a 4473 I am asked a bunch of questions that the federal government then doesn't take my word for:

    ARe you felon?

    Are you an illegal alien?

    Do you have a restraining order?

    I say "no" and they still verify my answers.


    Are you a mental nut job that hears voices, is bipolar, and may become a homicidal maniac if you fail to take your prescribed medicine or alter the dose?


    Answer: "NO," government says, "O.K." FFL then hands over the gun.

    I am not wanting additional gun control laws, I just want actual enforcement of what is already on the books.
     
  13. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Actual enforcement of the existing laws (and there are thousands) would be great, but given the present infrastructure of the U.S. prison (and mental) systems, there's not enough room for all the criminals and wackos that roam our country. Also, as most Judges aren't worth a pile of buffalo chips, getting a conviction with jail time just ain't gonna happen.

    We can wish in one hand, crap in the other and see which fills up the fastest!!

    A perplexing problem.

    Curt
     
  14. noknock1

    noknock1 Active Member

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    I don't disagree Curt, however, it we somehow need to stop psychotic homicidal maniacs from murdering people after they illegally purchased a firearm by lying on the 4473.

    Even if it prevents the mentally ill person from purchasing from an FFL and the mental patient doesn't go to jail because of overcrowding or whatever, well it is still a start in the right direction.
     
  15. schutzemgud

    schutzemgud TS Member

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    Boy is this a be careful what you wish for thread.

    More mental health protection, really? Each of the "wacos' from Columbine forward and probably before were on mental health prescription drugs. I don't doubt this guy in Tucson will be also. As far as the "hospitals" closed during Reagan years you are talking about factories that produced a lot more "patients" than cure's.

    The cost were out of control with bigger and bigger budgets every year.

    Is there any question about the sanity of a murderer? It is insane to murder anyone. As for a defense to guard us against these guys I say there is. Quick and swift justice. Armed citizens to stop fools like this guy cold and hard. Have you ever noticed these insane guys like to shoot unarmed people. Maybe they are not quite so insane just murderous.

    There are more than adequate gun laws. Way to many. Objects don't kill anyone. An axe or car or knife or whatever object can be misused. It is the intention of use that makes the difference.

    No place to send the kid who was the shooter? Pity or compassion for this bum. No way. You open the door for acts committed by this type of A..H... and you let in the monsters.

    Study history a little bit. When did all these type of things start? It's in recent history 50's forward. That is also when we started lots of "mental help drugs."

    Punish this bum, no special treatment. JMHO

    Mike Sudz
     
  16. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I'm told this is just the tip of the iceberg......We're drugging our soldiers and who's going to clean up the mess.....They say PTSD is rampant with soldiers returning from the middle east, yet they keep volunteering to go back.

    This article claims that the soldiers are given a six month supply on deployment, JUST in case their in an area without a large supply.

    Most of us will be rolling in our graves when the files are finally opened on what really is going on with our military in the middle east.
     
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