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Modern Trap gun or Model 12

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Don Nolan, Aug 25, 2008.

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  1. Don Nolan

    Don Nolan TS Member

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    If you were going to enter a compitition, and money was on the line, which would you use, a modern trap gun (such as a Ljutic, Silver Seitz, Perazzi, etc.) or would you use a Model 12? In other words, which gun do you use today for serious shooting? Thanks for your answer.
     
  2. trapshootin hippie

    trapshootin hippie Well-Known Member

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    Shoot the "modern" gun, Save the Model 12 for when the one you are shooting breaks.
     
  3. Joe Woods

    Joe Woods Well-Known Member

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    Modern equipment has technical advantage, but shoot what you like, what you can afford.

    Joe Woods/Ontario
     
  4. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Which ever I shot better.
     
  5. Don Nolan

    Don Nolan TS Member

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    When I shoot trap, I shoot a Ljutic. But, I just wanted to see what other people thought and if they thought the Model 12 was better to shoot, now days, than a modern trap gun.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I fully agree with zzt. I would immediately case my K-80 and shoot a Stevens bolt action if I could shoot better scores with the bolt action. I am much more interested in good scores than what I shoot the good scores with.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. Don Nolan

    Don Nolan TS Member

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    But, which do you shoot better scores with? Is the question. :)
     
  8. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    The gun is just a tool. But, breakdowns are a problem. That is why I shoot a Ljutic rather than my old Model 12.
     
  9. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Do as zzt and Pat suggest, the one your most deadly with.
     
  10. Don Nolan

    Don Nolan TS Member

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    Right, pheasantmaster. But, once again-the question is: which one do ALL OF YOU shoot?
     
  11. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    If it FITS and you can shoot it then the Brand(and vintage) doesn't really matter. Rudy Etchen shot an 870 until his death and won everything but the Kitchen sink with it! In 1980(the year he was inducted into the HOF at the Grand, he broke ALL 600 16 yd. program targets with it! I am amazed at the people who shoot really high end guns, but admit that they prefer a model 12.
     
  12. Don Nolan

    Don Nolan TS Member

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    You are right, slide action. People DO say that the Model 12 is the best gun ever made, and that it is their choice, but I hardly ever see anyone shooting them as their serious gun. At least not the better shooters at the big shoots. That is why I am asking the question I asked.
     
  13. Saddletramp

    Saddletramp TS Member

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    For many years I thought there was no better shotgun than the Winchester Model 12. I used one for trapshooting and a 16 guage Model 12 for bird hunting. That said, I switched to a Lujtic for trap when they first appeared on the market and acquired an O/U Krieghoff for doubles. My scores improved a bit after the change. Not dramatically but just a bird or two on the hundred. The most significant difference to me is the trigger and lock time. Krieghoff and Lujtic both have the Model 12 beat in this regard. But shooting the Model 12 and becoming adjusted to the lock time overcomes this problem. All considered the Model 12 is a truly great shotgun. I will always regard it admiration and respaect.

    Feather


    .
     
  14. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    JKW, you question is valid and I think the anwser MAY lie in the felt recoil generated by the gun. I shoot a model 12 and shoot it better for handicap than my O/U BUT I shoot 1 oz. loads in it. With modern handicap loads it will really rattle your cage! I got the bright idea of shooting Nitro Hdcp. loads through it for 100 targets at the Grand and came off the field feeling like I had gone 4 rounds with George Foreman! I DO think there is no better pointing gun out there, but I admit some of the newer guns won't wear you out as much. People buy guns for different reasons. Some for fashion, some for a TREND, and some because they can break good scores with them. I remember when Super Dan started shooting a P gun and Winchester Super Target shells. Within months P gun sales soared and the ground at gun clubs was littered with Win. Tuper target Hulls! Big Leo set the world on fire with an out of the box 1100. Now he shoots a high end Beretta. I really have to laugh at guys who claim they shoot some types high dollar guns because of dependability, when there are 870s and mod. 12s out there with hundreds of thousands of rounds through them. If I really thought I could break better scores with a K or P gun I would have sent in my order by now. The argument will go on, but the bottom line is shoot what is comfortable and what you have coinfidence in. The rest is pure speculation. As to why the top shooters shoot what they do I think it lis in personal choice. In fairness Rudy Etchen's 870 was really a custom gun. It had a Fred Etchen stock, a timmney trigger and was choked by Herb Orre. I do think Pat and Pheasnatmaster had the right idea. It it works DON"T FIX IT!
     
  15. OldPshtr

    OldPshtr Member

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    Good scores are usually produced by the indian - not the arrow.

    Doyal
     
  16. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    find yourself a model 12 trap that fits, & your set for a lifetime of shooting. this is my opinion, but the better scores today are based on better ammunition, & coaching. the shooters with the high priced guns, feel pride of ownership and that is understandable. if you think that barrel work is giving you higher scores, keep on believing that. once shooters broke some of the once thought scores that were unatainable, the records started falling. give me an all american with a model 12 870, 31, etc, and they fit him well, i would bit he would still be in the winners circle. barrel work can get you less felt recoil, give you more shot in a circle, but the target will still break with one of the above guns straight out of the box. if someone wants to disagree with me, go ahead, but this is my own opinion. price of the gun, barrel work, gold inlays, trigger pull, etc, is trevia in my opinion. END OF STORY!!!
    steve Balistreri
     
  17. AAtrap

    AAtrap Well-Known Member

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    JKW, for serious 16's it's going to be back to the Mod. 12 for me. I shoot a much higher shooting gun in the hdc. and don't have a 12 set up to shoot that high.

    In the past two years I have owned a Ljutic mono mid-rib and a Krieghoff KS-5 Special. Even though I have shot some good scores with them; I have not been as consistent with them as with the mod.12. After bringing my average down the last two yrs., I'm back to the mod. 12 as of 3 wks. ago.

    Steve
     
  18. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    My Model 12
     
  19. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

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    Back in the day, I didn't know there was any "other gun" than a Model 12. It seemed there was a dozen or more on the rack no mater where I went to shoot.

    I built mine (a 1954 model) back about 1980 with wood from Fajen, A Simmons rib and some TLC from "The Gun Dr." I quit trapshooting in mid-80s and never really visited a trap club until last year when my son became interested.

    Now it seems like I have the only M-12 at the club. It breaks in the 20's every week and looks good doing it. Bought my son a BT-99 and I do admit the recoil is less on the Browning. There are at least 15-20 shooters with BT's (I guess what I consider the most popular modern trap gun) on the rack with my lone M-12.

    I only shoot about 50-75 birds a week so the M-12 is just fine for me. Besides, I get more comments on the quality of the wood and the condition of the gun, why would I change? It's pretty cool to go out and shoot a 23 with the 50+ year old nostalgic gun and watch the guys with the high-dollar modern guns go stare at my gun as they walk away.

    Long rant over nothing but the point is, if it feels good.... shoot it.

    SW
     
  20. Timbob44

    Timbob44 Member

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    Model 12, Thanks Tim
     
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