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Moderators - Good Intentions

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Bocephas, Feb 5, 2008.

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  1. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    Bob,good point,I don't think your thread will get deleted.
    You have a right to speak your mind.

    Regards

    Bo
     
  2. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Bob,

    I see nothing wrong with your post and I would be very much surprised if anyone would take offense to it. I participate on another site that is a really heavy political site that is very closely moderated because of the highly charged atmosphere and the rather impressive credentials of a lot of the posters. We have many Congressional leaders, Senators and even Presidential contenders who post on the forum.

    The basic moderating rule of that site is that the Moderators never apply their own views to whether a thread topic or post is right or wrong. They only look at it as to whether its civil, non-racist, honestly argued and without personal attacks or foul language. They view their role not as bouncers breaking up fights and throwing people out, but like governors on an engine to keep it from over-reving.

    Part of that concept is that sometimes they need to protect posters from themselves. When they see someone getting emotional and headed for perhaps a bannable offense, they try to "moderate" the situation to keep that person an active participant. Same with threads. When they start going bad they seldom get better unless a moderator intervenes and cools things off, up to including just closing the thread.

    I think the only question a moderator should ask is "is this thread/comment creating a positive environment where people can express their opinions in a civil manner and respecting the rights of others to do the same" regardless of the topic or views expressed.

    When people understand there are parameters to how they act then even the most sensitive and volatile topics can get a fair hearing, hopefully to everyone's benefit. Unfortunately, there are some people who mistake having to submit to parameters of behavior for the censorship of their ideas. Those are the ones who need to go elsewhere and should be given the opportunity to do so.

    JT
     
  3. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    This BB is not a bastion of free speech. Its a privately owned site that we are allowed to use for entertainment purposes. There is no democracy at work here... play by the owner's rules or see the owner's rules play!

    Jay
     
  4. Dave90T

    Dave90T TS Member

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    This is a privately owned website. You don't have the "right" to anything here, you have the privelage to post. This site to the owner and his appointed mods is the same as me and my doorstep. You can show up, but its my doorstep. You don't have the "right" to speak on my doorstep, and if I ask you to leave, you are required to leave. This isn't a 1st Amendment issue..it isn't even a slippery slope, its deal with the rules or leave.

    I've frequented forums around a decade now and its the same old song and I'm sick of these topics. Someone owns this site. Its THEIR right what they do and don't want on it. You think people would understand this by now.
     
  5. admiral Art

    admiral Art TS Member

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    Well golly Dave, thanks for that bit of news.
     
  6. Bocephas

    Bocephas Well-Known Member

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    Dave,you have the right to speak your mind,just like you did.

    They have the privelage to delete it.It's that simple.

    Regards

    Bo
     
  7. Dave90T

    Dave90T TS Member

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    You have it backwards, Bo. I have the privelage of posting here..its their right to delete it. Everyone has the right to an opinion, but no private entity must entertain it. They can choose to allow it, in the case of hosting forums.

    Being that this place is private, there is no such thing as censorship here. I mean really..when your parents said "not another word, or, no back talk" did you whine "thats censorship?"..? The moderation is the owners choice, end of discussion..no one else has a say, or is owed an explanation. This isn't the town square.
     
  8. nomderf

    nomderf TS Member

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    This is old news: Things got out of hand! Folks PROMOTED bad behavior and that just won't fly anymore.

    If you have had a post pulled, chances are YOU WERE part of the problem. If you can't say something to someone face to face, don't type it in a post.

    Real simple:)

    38-01615
     
  9. mono1393

    mono1393 Member

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    Moderators,

    Axe this one too. It has no value. Thanks.
     
  10. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Hi, Bob!

    I was initially concerned/afraid that some of the moderators would jump right in and do some things that I suspected they would do.

    I've got my fingers crossed that we error on the side of hesitation to delete or dump, unless, of course, the poster is completely out of control, or looking for a fight, so to speak.

    My daughter in law school has taught me some good lessons in debate. As long as the rules are followed a good debate is probably the best way to get through a situation. I like the O/T threads... heck, I learned a good way to fix primer rib a while back.

    Yes, there are about 12 moderators.

    The impetus for all of this changing was the posting of one individual that broke the camel's back. Then, we learned that many, many users had 4-5 id's and some had as many as 20-30. Some were even from Europe, Amsterdam, Japan and whose ids were probably some of the most disgusting/filthy one could imagine.

    I think things will quiet down some. I sure hate to see a thread deleted just because someone disagrees. However, when it gets to name-calling, and posting unsubstantiated accusations, then a thread should be pulled, and the poster warned; maybe, depending upon the level of disgusting behavior.

    David has really worked hard here to keep this site going in a more positive direction. Hope this helps to shed some light to the matter at hand.

    I'm not a super religious guy, but if you wouldn't say something in church during the coffee hour, or in front of kids or women, then perhaps it ought not to be said here.

    Whiz
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    It would seem that the moderators are simply striving to get a few people to post their thoughts in a polite manner. I doubt that any post would ever be deleted because of the ideas expressed in the post. It is the manner in which the ideas are expressed that causes problems. Name calling and strong language may be now accepted in some parts of our society, but this site is striving to remain at a higher level than rap music.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    I think a few see the concieved problem a little differently. First of all we didn't need the racially bigoted posts. We didn't need the site comedians jumping honest threads(no matter how dumb some might have thought they were)and turning them into trash. We didn't need those non trapshooters just looking to start an argument with those that shoot out sport. We didn't need those of the other politics know that they could come on here and start WWIII and riduclule veterans of past conflicts.

    What we don't need now are posters tippy toeing around, sugar coating everything so that we are all politically correct. Trapshooters are direct speaking individuals, who answer any question posed and do it with everyday language. There is a difference between what some call profanity and what is crude and lewd. The latter has no place here. Yet you allow certain sign on names that represent crude and lewd.

    Because of certain moderator censorship you have posters not knowing what is truly allowed and they are all pre-qualifying what they say so they are all nice nice.

    New people came to this site and shooters spoke of this site at shoots, shooters looked up other shooters at shoots because of what this site used to be. It needed fine tuning not an overhaul.

    I think you are going to find a lot old time posters are going to take a vacation, many have already. I wish this site well as I have been here a long time as have others and would like to see it continue.

    Don
     
  13. admiral Art

    admiral Art TS Member

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    Pat Ireland:

    If you know (or have an opinion), and if you are so inclined; it would be enlightening to know why the thread to which Odin made reference was snatched. Not out of morbid curiosity or anything. But I (& no doubt others) did not see the thread, and it might help us to understand the boundaries.

    I posed this question to you, not in an accusatory manner, but rather because your opinions are so well respected by most posters. (Much as one would ask a physics qustion of Neil, or a computer question of Jebear, or an automotive question of Tron the Former Troll.)

    I think, and certainly hope, that you knew that my request was not mean sprited or argumentative. But like many others, I feel the need to don kid gloves before touching the keyboard.

    Having given some more thought, I suppose Whiz I could substitute Whiz for Pat, as his opinions are also well respected.

    AA (A site comedian).

    This is from the Moderator that pulled the thread in question and no, I am not Pat or Whiz. As Odin indicated above, you can read the total post by Googling "What You Need To Believe To Be A Republican". It consists of 15 statements, the first being: "Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.", the following 14 were similar. If anyone doesn't think that is an inflammatory statement, they have a comprehension problem. The fact that it was about Republicans was immaterial. Had it been about Democrats and the first statement had been: "Jesus loves you and shares your hatred of the Military and George Bush", I would have pulled it just as quickly. I left the thread up and the opening so that people could find the total post elsewhere and they could learn what might not be acceptable. The thread was entitled to be provacative, the content would have led to the worst type of discussion/arguing/name calling. There would have been no meaningful outcome for anyone. The Poster had been warned before about his content and that is why he was removed.

    Moderating is about maintaining orderly discussion. Some thread/comments are like throwing dead chickens into an alligator pond. It is entertaining to watch the results from shore, not so much if your wading amongst them.
     
  14. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    This site is similar to a classroom, without discipline, the kids get out of hand.


    Everybody talks at once, some kids start throwing things and a fight may break out. Learning stops.


    Sad or unfair as it may seem, some kids need to be removed from class. We don’t have the paddle anymore so the kids have to be sent home for a few days. At home, they play video games, hang out or watch television.


    When they return, sometimes the "time out" results in an improved student. Sometimes the cycle just repeats itself.

    Ed
     
  15. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Even our beloved registered trap shoots have "moderator's".....

    It's merely a fact of life.....almost everything we do that involves interaction with other people is moderated by some authority. Those person's (and I use the term loosely) that have authority issues will leave this site as their problems didn't just start here with the new & improved demeanor.

    I did enjoy the verbage of some of the old posts, but some people just never learned how to play nice.

    Anyway, this can be a good site, entertaining, informative and thought provoking....just like all things it needs to be tempered...moderator's and poster's. Let hope the "twain" meets!

    Curt
     
  16. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Good Lord. This is worse than the breast cancer self examination.

    Poke, squeeze, twist, peer, worry, agonize.

    blecchhhh.

    HM
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    From the very beginning of this great trapshooting site, information and helping others in our sport was the driving idea. The information available here can't be found anywhere else either. The trapshooters willing to share their vast amount of knowledge and past experiences in our game is almost endless! A lot of the OT post were also very informative and sometimes entertaining. It doesn't take an awful lot of smarts to figure out who's here for trouble making or arguing only? The only thing that will hurt this site is losing long time shooters with valid information that could help promote our sport. I applaud David and the moderators in attempting to get a handle on the trolls and trouble makers continually violating the house rules! Spit on my floor and I'll throw you out too! Hap
     
  18. admiral Art

    admiral Art TS Member

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    To the Moderator that replied on my most recent post above:

    Thank you for your response.

    It is probably not necessary but, I do want to make sure that you and, Pat, and Whiz understand that I was not "fishing" [for a change] trying to "ID" a Mod., or looking for an argument.

    I addressed my comment to them as they had both posted on this thread, and as I said, I valued their opinion.

    Now, sir or madam, <i>mea culpa</i>, I DID follow the link, but did not bother to read it. I saw it and assumed it was some standard boilerplate political joke. Yes, it is true, I gave it a very cursory glance (I don't think I even let the page fully load), and figured it was one of internet jokes we see so often.

    Again, thank you, you gave a very cogent reason and explanation for what transpired. I do understand that neither David nor his volunteer "staff" is required to do this, so I want to make sure you understand that it is appreciated. No doubt there are some, maybe many, that will not agree with your decision, which in my opinion is okay, as reasonable men can agree to disagree. Sadly, it would be an interesting intellectual exercise to have an academic discussions of the matter [whether the thread should have been pulled or not], but I fear we might find ourselves “amongst the alligators”.

    At least now we know that O/T threads that are not <i>inherently</i> inflammatory, but are instead conducive to rational discussion, are still “on the table.”

    Now, as it is my nature to solve puzzles, you have me analyzing your comments. Not many comments are so well written. That master wordsmith, The Lit, taught me early on in my trolling career, the art of writing analysis, so I must get to work detecting.

    AA
     
  19. Phil E

    Phil E TS Member

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    Moderators: My thanks for all you do, sifting through childish prattle and trying to decide if it has any germ of worth, so the grownups can have discussions. For what it's worth, if I ever start a thread or make a post that you think needs deleting, just delete it, don't give it a thought. I'll understand and not whimper or run away, you've got my word on it. Phil E
     
  20. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    I just read this thread for the first time today. As I worked through the various posts, it occurred to me they include some of the most lucid and well reasoned points I've seen concerning the newly moderated TS.com. An exception would be Mr. Slough's initial post. In it he lists several unsupported suppositions along with potentially draconian results. Regardless, it was the catalyst for some quality discussion for which, I thank him.


    In my estimation, nomderf pegged it. “Things (a handful of abusive posters, IMO) were out of hand”. Their site participation was limited to bad behavior and ‘… promoting bad behavior…’

    David was no longer willing to put up with the crap and has since stepped on some of those self described free thinkers and site bad boys. As I have stated bluntly elsewhere, I applaud him doing so.

    Frankly, I don’t have a problem with actions taken to restore some basic civility. I’m happy to see some of the worst offenders banished and I don’t share the view that the current version of TS.com is the end of the world.

    I do have a couple of concerns.

    I’ve contributed to threads that were frozen and I’ve posted to threads that were subsequently deleted. Maybe I was a culprit, maybe not. All I can say for certain is I haven’t had a warning tacked on to a post nor received an e-mail of reprimand. However, I remain unclear on some of the site standards.

    My next comments are directed to Messrs. Ireland and White.

    Pat, on a different thread you objected to “panties in a bunch” or a derivation thereof. You said such verbiage would be unacceptable to a “southern gentleman”. That thread was subsequently deleted.

    I’m not southern and only arguably a gentlemen. My point? I’m not sure either criterion is valid for judging the content of a post or its poster.

    And Whiz, on this thread you offer, “… if you wouldn't say something in church during the coffee hour… then perhaps it ought not to be said here.”
    Well Whiz, I occasionally enjoy sex with my spouse. While it has never happened at church during the coffee hour, I would submit it is still acceptable behavior. I would further submit TS.com isn’t church and the standard for acceptable behavior there isn’t necessarily the appropriate standard here.


    Ok. I’ve nitpicked leading up to a suggestion for the moderators:

    Please pick your battles carefully. Save the delete key for posts and posters truly worthy of it.


    sissy

    PS to Halfmile: Dang it! I was starting to mentally compose a serious post when I read your 'breast self exam' comments and WHAM, I spit diet soda all over my keyboard.
     
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