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Model 12 super pigeon grade for sale

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by code5coupe, Jul 25, 2007.

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  1. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    Over four grand for a PUMP GUN??

    :)
     
  2. PA101_guy

    PA101_guy TS Member

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    Waiting with baited breath for a pic to be posted :)

    KEEP SMOKIN' EM.... Dave
     
  3. Big Dave

    Big Dave Member

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    Here you go

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  4. PA101_guy

    PA101_guy TS Member

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    Thanks Big Dave....That's a purty Mod. 12.

    KEEP SMOKIN' EM.... Dave
     
  5. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Code5... are you just stirring the pot, or showing your ignorance?

    I have one like that, and wouldn't accept a dime less!
     
  6. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    I take from the letter that Ms. Muerrle engraved the gun in 2004 ? She is the last living Winchester engraver and is still upgrading guns. Jeff
     
  7. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    I wish Winchester still existed.
     
  8. bundy4

    bundy4 Member

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    The number 1922xxx is not in the range of the true Super Pigeons, I recall that they were in the 1966xxx range and Winchester started them in production in 1966. I dont think Mrs. Muerrle was working for Winchester at that time. Ray
     
  9. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    I don't know the difference betwen the Pigeon and Super Pigeon grades. Is it the #5 engarving or the A carved wood?
     
  10. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    Super Pigeon started after the regular production of M12's had stopped is what I recall.
     
  11. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your response Hitapair
     
  12. Big Dave

    Big Dave Member

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    According to George Madis, Super Pigeon grade guns were manufactured starting in 1964, Antique's gun was manufactured in 1961, and as stated in Ms Muerrie's letter it is a Pigeon grade. The only real difference between a Super Pigeon and pigeon grade were the dates of manufacture. There were Super Grade as well as Deluxe Grade guns made prior to 1964, but none were associated with the Pigeon Grade. Somewhere around ser #1964000 the Model Twelve was dropped as a production gun. After this time Model Twelve's were made in the Custom Gun Shop,and the Super Pigeon was born.

    Big Dave
     
  13. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Big Dave,
     
  14. bundy4

    bundy4 Member

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    As I stated in my first post In the sixties the Kusmits were engraving at Winchester. The only Muerrle working at Winchester was Paulines father who was a custodian at the plant at that time. I recall that Mr. Muerrle, and John Durkin who did the wood checkering and carving in the custom shop were friends. Many years after this gun left Winchester it was upgraded. I would think Durkin did the wood at home after he hsd left Winchester.
     
  15. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    Antique, does the letter state that she engraved the gun at the factory? From what I can read it states ,"engraved in the factory #5 pattern" It should say engraved by me in the #5 pattern at the factory. Is there more of the letter we cannot see? Jeff
     
  16. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    Hey, Cap'n (AHAB)...you missed the smiley, didn't you.
     
  17. bundy4

    bundy4 Member

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    Jim, I not trying to put your gun down. I think its very nice. I just feel that in calling this model 12 a Super Pigeon your way off, I think you are right on when you say that Pauline Muerrle ''worked for Winchester when this gun was engraved.'' This may be true but She worked on a contract basis with them not at the factory. POINT BLANK, what I would like you to answer is, when this model 12 was produced and left the Winchester factory, at that time did it leave engraved by Pauline Muerrle. Point being, The reason Im running my mouth off is, If you can say YES and BACK IT UP I will contact you to purchase. Ray
     
  18. Jkuhn1

    Jkuhn1 TS Member

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    Well knowledge is powerfull. The experts can not be fooled
    Jim
     
  19. camshaft

    camshaft TS Member

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    You can solve this mystery easily be taking a picture of the barrel where the scroll goes out towards the choke marking. A factory number five engraved gun should have all of the writing and choke marking moved out and away from the scroll.
     
  20. bundy4

    bundy4 Member

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    AMEN!
     
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