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Model 12 short chamber

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by joegriff, Dec 8, 2010.

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  1. joegriff

    joegriff Member

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    I have a older 16 ga model 12 that has short 2 1/2 inch chamber that I have shot several times with 2 3/4 inch shells with no problems. Someone brought it to my attention recently that it was a short chamber gun and that I should not shoot it till opened up. Do the older 20 and 16 ga guns really need opened up to shoot modern 2 3/4 inch ammo? The chambers actually slowly taper for 3 inches before reaching the bore.
     
  2. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I would not shoot it with regular shells unless opened up- and never with steel shot

    Purchase a chambering reamer if you dont want to send it off and do it very slowly by hand per the directions

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  3. rustygun

    rustygun Member

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    I'm with Gene on this but I would bet that there has been a boatload of 2 3/4 loads shot though short chambered mod. 12s.
     
  4. kehrby

    kehrby Active Member

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    The chamber is actually 2 9/16" and no, I would not shoot 2 3/4" through it. Sooner or later something bad is going to happen and it will be right under your nose!

    I have a 16ga with the short chamber and I just buy 2 1/2" ammo for it. Cabelas has it for a reasonable price if you buy it from their store. Its actually my favorite pheasant gun. Short ammo or modify the chamber.

    Steve
     
  5. rustygun

    rustygun Member

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    I need to clarify my post. I'm not saying it's okay to shoot 2 3/4 shells in your gun. I'm saying most people will pick up whatever 16 ga. shells that are on the shelf and never check the chamber on grandpa's gun. Good luck to them.
     
  6. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I will tell you something- I have done this(shot 2 3/4 in 2 /9/16th chamber) and you can feel a real kick - real increase in recoil when you do

    Something is happening that shouldnt be happening to pressure

    Thats why I say lengthen chamber

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  7. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Gene. Maybe some of the experts will be along and could explain why you "felt" more recoil by shooting a 2-3/4 load in the 2-9/16ths chamber? According to experts on recoil, you shouldn't feel added chamber pressures?

    Hap
     
  8. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Wright's, Simmons and others offer the chamber lengthening service. I might add they lengthen the forcing cone, open up the ejection port and reblue as necessary at the same time, for around $250.
     
  9. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Hap,

    I'm one of those guys who believes pressure makes no difference.

    Before answering I would ask Gene, "When you say, 'real increase in recoil' what do you mean? Do you mean a real increase in recoil as compared to other shells you shoot in that gun, or a real increase in recoil comparing the same shells when you use them in a different gun?"

    In either case, its comparing apples to oranges.

    As to the original question posed by Joe Griff, don't shoot 2-3/4" shells in this gun. Bad idea.
     
  10. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Hap, I've not screwed up with the 16 ga, but I can remember feeding 3" duck loads by mistake into my Father's old Remington model 11 a long time ago and wondering why they wouldn't eject properly.
     
  11. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    If it is the wrong size chamber, why does the larger size shell fit into it? HMB
     
  12. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    hmb,

    Because the length of the chamber, before the beginning of the forcing cone, is the length of a fired hull, not the length of the unfired shell.

    An unfired 2-3/4" shell is about 2-1/2" long.

    The problem occurs when you place a shell that fits in the chamber, but can't fully open when fired because the "petals" of the hull are "in" the forcing cone.
     
  13. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. HMB
     
  14. oldgahchamp

    oldgahchamp Active Member

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    I am very glad to see so many different comments regarding the short chamber mod 12s. Where were you guys a few years ago when I commented about mod 12s and short chambers? Some "know it alls" accused me of being the "Village Idiot" for suggesting that older 12s had short chambers. Larry Evans
     
  15. Prescott Gene

    Prescott Gene Member

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    The original Model 12 came out in 20 gauge with 2 1/2 inch chambers. The 2 3/4 inch chambers started a few years later.

    The 12 gauge didn't come out until 1913 - 1914????!

    Gene
     
  16. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    2 3/4 chambering became standard around 1926.
     
  17. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    In answer I meant real increase as in more than the shells I normally shot in that gun

    and more than the same shells in other guys of like ilk


    Here would be why I felt more recoil- I think it was more of an abrubt slap

    Alth0ugh total recoil is a factor of mass times velocity that recoil is spread over a period of time and the period of time is influenced by the movement of shot at different speeds in the barrel

    Theoretically more pressure initially means a more abrubt slap because the greater inital pressure will move the mass out of the starting gate faster

    It may end up at the same velocity at the end of the barrel
    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  18. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    How did you measure the chamber? If you measured it with the barrel off, you did not get the correct measurement. What is the serial number of your gun? 16 gauge Model 12s with short chambers do not generally feed and eject 2 3/4" shells reliably. Short chambered 20s normally work pretty well. I would guess that your gun has already been modified. I would not go to the expense of modifying your gun whether it is already modified or not. I would either buy 2 1/2" shells or shoot it with 2 3/4" shells. You are not going to damage a Model 12 with any light 2 3/4" load.
     
  19. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    If lengthening forcing cones reduces recoil, it stands to reason that a short chamber would increase recoil.
     
  20. joegriff

    joegriff Member

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    Up-Date: The Model 12 is a 1924 gun. Not marked 2 3/4 on barrel.
    Thanks eightbore about the measurement tip. I measured 8/32" boltface to the extension and 2 16/32" barrel extension to the bore step. So, That gives me
    2 24/32" to use. A opened hull is 2 22/32". So I think shooting 2 3/4" shells, (actually 2 8/32") should be fine in my gun. IMHO. I still don't know if this gun is stock or opened up. It ejects fine.
     
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