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model 12,s & gun club shells

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by dbcook, May 17, 2008.

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  1. dbcook

    dbcook TS Member

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    i have tried to shoot gun club shells in 4 different 2 pin milled rib model 12 trap guns. i can shoot 5 or 8 or any number & then i will get 1 or 2 that will not fire. every box,every time. anyone else encounter this problem. thanks dwain
     
  2. squirrelkiller

    squirrelkiller TS Member

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    I had more or less the same problem in the past. I could shoot 1 or maybe 15 before a misfire. Finally tore the gun down and the firing pin was broken in two places. The pin breaks would match up and the gun would fire, and then the breaks would not align and the misfires would occur. At least I hope that was the problem. It has not occurred since. Have shot the gun enough to know that the problem apparently is cured. Have not purchased any more Gun Clubs since I ran out. Boycotted Dick's.
     
  3. motordoctor

    motordoctor Shoji Tabuchi in Branson

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    have the same problem with gun clubs. sent a bunch back to remington. see what they say. had a 20 gauge do the same thing. think it is the shells but sedn seitz in to have it checked. motordoc
     
  4. Tdog

    Tdog TS Member

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    I've shot thousands of them, in a model 12 trap (doughnut post rib), without a problem until a few weeks ago. It began to mis-fire occasionally until it became pretty common. It appeared to be a light hit on the primer and I could always get it to fire the second or third try. It wasn't a fireing pin. I dropped it off at Laib's this morning. He said that it had excessive head space but other than that he wouldn't know until he looked at it more thoroughly on Monday.
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    same problem with my mx15. Lightly striken. Even handed it to a browning guy. Wouldnt fire on 1st in his gun either.btw these are brass covered rims. Old stock maybe??? Only on gun clubs......
     
  6. panthers314

    panthers314 TS Member

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    using 687II...........all gun clubs no problems..more than 10,000
     
  7. spritc

    spritc Active Member

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    It is the firing pin!
     
  8. onlym12's

    onlym12's TS Member

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    I find it really funny how so many people who have shot these same model 12's for year's are all of a sudden having head spacing, chamber ring, firing pin's and hammer spring's that just happen to be failing all at the same time. I personally find this completely impossible, or severely ironic. I have recently had trouble with four of my model 12's with Federal's, never had a problem with any of these gun's in the past. You won't convince me that the headspacing or the hammer spring's all failed on these gun's within 500 round's of each other!! BS!! Not to mention all the other shooter's that are experiencing the same problem's.



    I'm not sure what is wrong, but my father reloaded some of the empty federal's with steel shot (because of the straght casing) And to deprime them, you almost need a pipe on the 600jr, to get the primer out. Maybe when they press the primer in the steel head is so hard that it concave's the head of the shell a few thousanth's, and is causing issue's? Just a thought? Any other thought's???



    Thank's Mike
     
  9. spritc

    spritc Active Member

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    It is the firing pin!
     
  10. onlym12's

    onlym12's TS Member

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    Feb 15, 2007
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    I find it really funny how so many people who have shot these same model 12's for year's are all of a sudden having head spacing, chamber ring, firing pin's and hammer spring's that just happen to be failing all at the same time. I personally find this completely impossible, or severely ironic. I have recently had trouble with four of my model 12's with Federal's, never had a problem with any of these gun's in the past. You won't convince me that the headspacing or the hammer spring's all failed on these gun's within 500 round's of each other!! BS!! Not to mention all the other shooter's that are experiencing the same problem's.



    I'm not sure what is wrong, but my father reloaded some of the empty federal's with steel shot (because of the straght casing) And to deprime them, you almost need a pipe on the 600jr, to get the primer out. Maybe when they press the primer in the steel head is so hard that it concave's the head of the shell a few thousanth's, and is causing issue's? Just a thought? Any other thought's???



    Thank's Mike
     
  11. blizzard

    blizzard Active Member

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    I shoot them almost exclusively in my 682 and have 0 problems.
     
  12. dbcook

    dbcook TS Member

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    i can shoot gun clubs in my tm 1 & have shot several thousand thru a browning special trap. no problem. stu wright thought in my case it could be a head spacing problem .or else it could be because the head ring on the gun club shells is thinner than other shells. all the model 12,s i have tried to shoot gun club shells in are pre ww2 milled rib guns. dwain
     
  13. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
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    192
    Diagnosing these types of problems are typical at my shop, and with Model 12's, in particular, since I happen to be a classic Winchester specialist. There are many possibilities to the specific problem of misfires, but when you have 4 guns that all have a problem, and they all happen to be pre-war, perhaps at least one of them should be gone through to check the wear conditions that are prevalent to see if that has been the main contributor to this endemic failure.

    I have a magnum M-12 here now that shows not a considerable amount of wear from use, but does exhibit a bit more slack in certain parts of the mechanism that usually would be seen in a specimen with many more rounds fired. That condition of slackness has a possibility of borderline ignition being a possibility with certain ammo.

    No M-12 should ever be unable to digest anything that is safe to fire, regardless of primer insensitivity, thin rim, or slightly deep primer set. All primers are set to be below flush, and even with a somewhat soft case head support, a brisk firing pin hit will not fail to make that go bang.

    Shooting guns pushing 70 years without a thorough rework by me should have the shooter find somebody else like me- a Winchester mechanical specialist.

    The M-12 magnum originally came in for barrel adjustment sleeve replacement and I found that the action slide lock was unsafe along with excess slack in the safety/trigger fit. For those unfamiliar with my discussions of barrel adjusting sleeve numbering problems, see my postings at shotgunworld. This example had a #6 sleeve and a blank sleeve fit almost exactly the same, and an "A" marked sleeve was only 2-3 notches different fit. The safety slack is now no problem and the action slide lock is smooth and safe. Too bad that this gun had been a rustbucket (with a subsequent reblue) and the payer is not willing to have the added expense of major parts replacement, so any possible rework of the existing parts is the order of the day. The crack in the magazine tube hole for the magazine end cap screw will be a situation for another day.

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=th-44.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
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