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model 12 question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by buddog1, Dec 8, 2011.

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  1. buddog1

    buddog1 Member

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    how do I tell,if a model 12,is a factory original trap model.thanks for any help.steve.
     
  2. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    The ones I've seen were stamped TRAP on the bottom of the receiver. Ross Puls
     
  3. Hitapair

    Hitapair Active Member

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    The rib is probably the best thing to look at. The "trap" stamp was only used for a limited time. There are a lot of genuine traps that don't say trap on them. Start w/ the proof marks and if there isn't a proof mark at the left side of the rib on the barrel at the breech end and on the receiver to the left of where the rib extension begins, it isn't an original rib. Having the proof marks doesn't mean it is original as there are fakes out there where the proof has been added. The rib if it is a pre 64 will be a 3 pin or a 2 pin. The pins are above the rib post on the rib on the left side at about the middle post. The duckbill extension pre 64 guns should be either 2pin or 3 pin. A special VR gun would not have the pins but they are not near as common anf wre only made a few yrs in the 50's. Get a 2 pin or a 3pin if you want the real McCoy. The 2 pin is more desirable and spendier.
     
  4. james dent

    james dent TS Member

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    i have a model 12 made in 54 they call it a herters gun it has fancy wood and a vent rib the goes over the reciver no proff marks with a 28 barrel fix full and it shoots 3inch mags
     
  5. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Jim, Herter's would put ribs on any gun back then. They had various widths and did run back over the reciever. A 3" model 12 should be so marked on the barrel. Your's sounds like an interesting made up trap gun. I can remember a fellow years ago with a 28" full choke model 12. It would just "boil" targets, nothing but dust when he was on them.
     
  6. Bvr Tail

    Bvr Tail Well-Known Member

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    Not wanting to hi-jack this thread, but I have a model 12 question maybe someone can answer............

    I read where at times Winchester had Simmons install their ribs on "factory" guns.

    Well, I have a 1941, with a very early (Can tell by the style of writing on the rib) Simmons round post rib.

    It is in the very back of a safe, So I don't want to dig it out, and I can't remember about the proof marks on the receiver, but is it possible this is a factory gun, or did Simmons not mark factory guns with their name?

    Danny
     
  7. onlym12's

    onlym12's TS Member

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    Feb 15, 2007
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    161
    James, 3" mag 28" is a pretty rare gun unless it was cut, Hopefully not the case.

    Thank's, Mike
     
  8. notquite27

    notquite27 TS Member

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    Bvr Tail,

    If the identification markings on the rib are in script, they are truly an early Simmons installation done in their shop. Simmons did later supply round post ribs to Winchester in the white for installation at the New Haven plant. The were used onb both Model 12's and 42's. As far as I can ascertain from all of my digging and discussions with former Winchester employees, none of the Simmons ribs were mated with the duck bill ramps on the Model 12's. All had the later type narrow ramp. As for whether or not the Winchester installede ribs were marked with the Simmons logo, I can't tell. Nor has any of my research been able to give me a definitive answer. Hopefully, sopmeone on this thread has additional information. Good luck.

    Mike
     
  9. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    My 12 has a Win. spec. rib and ser. # 1,795,XXX. The few I have seen fall into this range.

    Someone said that the ribs are marked underneath, but I never have seen one.

    The only answer I ever got from Win. people was... it came from the factory that way.



    Regards....Gerald
     
  10. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    Bvr Tail, Simmons ribs were not made until 1945. Collector opinion today is that Simmons did not put any ribs on Model 12s for Winchester. They did put some on Model 42s for Winchester. In the fifties, Simmons did buy new, incomplete and complete Winchesters, put ribs on them, and marketed them through their own catalog. No known Model 12s sold by Winchester had Simmons markings on the rib. However, some Model 42s sold by Winchester had Simmons markings on the barrels. None of these had the early script Simmons Patented marking. Collectors are becoming more interested in the Special Ventilated Rib Traps recently because of their rarity. The donut post factory guns are the most coveted, even though the round post guns seem to be scarcer. Over the Hill's gun is one or the other, but which. A friend has a donut post Special Ventilated Rib Pigeon Grade Trap. When he bought that gun about twelve years ago at a gun show, you couldn't give away a Model 12 Trap unless it was a two pin. Times change. Until very recently, even a mint three pin Trap Grade was a hard sell. Slowly, they are becoming more collectable.
     
  11. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Near but not in chicago
    I was fortunate enough to get a 1929 Mod 12 Trap Pigeon grade, it has the trap stamped on the bottom of the receiver with the pigeon on the magazine, Hope that helps
     
  12. Bvr Tail

    Bvr Tail Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the answers, fellas!

    I went to the show at Louisville today, and saw almost the same gun as mine, but it didn't have any markings on the rib, and had the correct proof stamps on barrel, and receiver. Even had the upgraded wood, too.

    The man told me it was an SVR, and very rare, but on closer inspection, it had a light area about 1 3/4 inches long where mine has the Simmons script markings.

    Made me think someone was trying to pull a fast one?

    Thanks again

    Danny
     
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