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Model 12 malfunctions

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Bruce Em, Nov 22, 2007.

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  1. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    Hi Folks,

    I have a 1951 Model 12 that frequently misfeeds when held in shooting position. If I tip it down 45 degrees between shots and cycle it, it feeds. The shell starts forward but doesnt go in the chamber. A couple shucks back and forth may feed it.

    Any idea how to adjust that? Is it a sharp edge to the right and left of the chamber ring that needs rounding? Otherwise it is fine. I did fully disassemble and clean the receiver and that helped a lot but I am still fooled 50% of the time.

    Thanks in advance and happy TG.
     
  2. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    2,966
    A new magazine spring from Wolff might cure your problem. I cannot get the cheap ammo with the steel bases to cycle through my autoloader and I have to buy premium ammo with a brass base.
     
  3. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Bruce, this pic shows one thing that may be the culprit causing you grief?

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Pull the trigger assy. and look at the "music wire" springs, may be the problem? Hap
     
  4. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    I looked at that thanks, didn't see aproblem.

    There is a horizontal slot in the receiver between the mag tube and the chamber.

    I took a pic if I can figure how to post it I will. This slot was full of crap but also has sharp edges. Is that a problem?

    What about breaking the edges of the receiver going into the chamber ring?
     
  5. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Bruce, did you take the action slide lock off the trigger assy. to inspect those wires? If not, you can't tell if one happens to be broken. It's been a while since I shot my mod.12 much. Hap
     
  6. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    will also re-look at spring as you said

    thanks!
     
  7. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    trying pic of slot again sorry
    http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc102/bruce_em/11-21-07008.jpg
     
  8. Hipshot 3

    Hipshot 3 TS Member

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    Bruce...........I have the SAME problem when having sex! I'm an old guy....just like your gun! Be compassionate with it and help it along!
     
  9. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I just got out my old mod.12 and had a look see. It too has that same style slot. What I didn't see on mine was what looked to be a slight "lip" as seen in your pic at the end of the driver blade?

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Other than that "lip", I can't see any other problems from the pic. I'm guessing pretty sure the problem lies in the timer wires, either loose or possibly broken. If it was mine and that's a real lip, burred metal?, I'd stone it smooth. Check those wires! Hap

    WB ACE
     
  10. wm rike

    wm rike Member

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    Bruce: I'll take a stab at it and say it is the carrier spring, that little U-shaped music wire affair on the right side of the trigger assembly. You say that the gun feeds with difficulty under normal circumstances (as in lifting the shell to battery), but works okay when the gun is pointed down (and the carrier is not so much working against gravity as it is pushing the shell forward). I've seen some 12s where the carrier spring is tired and mostly collapsed. Before you spend time and money on new springs, try spreading the carrier spring so that it is open about 7/8" or so and see if the function improves. If it does, get a new spring and junk the old one 'cause it won't stay that way too long.
    Bill
     
  11. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    Thanks everyone. I did take ALL your advice into consideration.
    I mis spoke; it feeds in an upward 45 angle, not downward where it snagged again. There is a burr above the slot and I stoned that out as suggested.

    What I have done so far was:

    1) to put a stronger magazine spring in.
    This helped in one area, namely the shell mouth snagging in the end of the mag tube where the elevator doesn't seem to have a lot of leverage esp gun down at 45 degrees.

    2) I made up some dummy shells with no primer but enough shot to assure a good crimp that isn't sunk. I cycled my brains out with an empty followed by a dummy. I found one or two times, that the mouth of the dummy shell hit the sharp edge at about 4 oclock in the chamber mouth. I slightly broke that edge
    being mindful that removing metal is irreversible in general.

    3) the timer springs have good resistence but will be reexamined as well as elev spring if needed after I test fire.

    I dont think the slot matters but I cleaned it out anyways.

    Hap its amazing! You have the same dining room table as me! smile :)

    thansk again and will advise
     
  12. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Did you also notice I used the same kind of screwdriver? LOL :) I flipped the pic so I could better study it without flippin my head sidemore.

    "3) the timer springs have good resistence but will be reexamined as well as elev spring if needed after I test fire."

    Even ONE wire will have spring pressure up and down. Borrow another trigger assembly and give it a try? I'm tempted to send you one of mine to try!! lol That U shaped elevator wire is to help the carrier bottom out so the next shell in the mag tube won't hit as it's released. There's another area to look at but I ain't tellin ya till ya tell me those wires are whole and staked in place! :) grinz Hap

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  13. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    Bruce, Without handling the gun it is a guessing game as to the fault. However in your photo I noticed rub marks on the forward web of the receiver. Right under the screwdriver tip. They should not be there. That tells me the shell is rubbing there and the carrier may be holding the shell to far forward.
    Their is also the possibility that the cartridge stop on the front of the trigger guard needs qualified farther back. A lot of today's Ammo is long both crimped and after fired, making action problems. It will also be recommended to use a diamond flat stone or file and smooth up the face on the web.
    All other suggestions you received here are valid also.
    Stu
     
  14. ricks1

    ricks1 TS Member

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    bruce i think you did not get the mag stop in the grove there is a place it sits hard to see but gun will work but not feed right
     
  15. larryjk

    larryjk Member

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    bruce em, Don't play "cheapie" games with a Model 12. Take it to a gunsmith that knows a Model 12 and have him analyze and repair the problem. Keep the files and stones in the drawer. It worked before and will work again if you don't ruin it. Let someone that has Model 12 experience fix the problem instead of doing things that may ruin it.
     
  16. winchesterm12

    winchesterm12 TS Member

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    Good chance that the follower (elevator) may have been changed in that gun along the way, replacing or adjusting yours sounds like the way to go. Broken locking springs wont cause the problem your describing. I would suggest having someone who knows twelves fix it. He will probably just bend the follower a bit so that the bottom of it is even with the bottom of the chamber or even a bit higher. It sounds like the shell isn't being lifted high enough to enter the chamber. This will fix the problem but again if you don't know what your doing let some on else do it
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Ever heard of Stu (Stuart) Wright, mod.12 fixer and gunsmith supreme? ^^^
     
  18. Bruce Em

    Bruce Em Member

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    Well here's how it worked out. The gun is smooth and flawless in function but I made a major mistake; I let the kid use it and he shot better than he ever did. Now he loves the thing and I might never get to use it again.

    thanks everyone. (I will lookat the timer wires next time I have it apart but I could see both in place and both flexed when I moved the release.
     
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