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Mini-14 or R-15 ?

7K views 30 replies 21 participants last post by  BeerKing 
#1 ·
A friend wants to buy a rifle for plinking and possibly a coyote. He mentioned both these rifles as contenders in his decision. His main goal is to buy American. I told him to go with the Ruger as I believe it is American made / American owned, however I have heard they lack in accuracy. I have never shot a R-15, and know nothing about them....where are they made, reliablity, accuracy? Any info would be great. Also stick with .223?

Thanks, Eddie
 
#2 ·
I have an R-15 and the accuracy is pretty good. I have seen some very good groups by the handloaders. The R-15 is a Bushmaster and Remington I believe.
I would not go Ruger simply because the R-15 (AR-15) platform gives you so much to play with. You can convert your .223 to a .204 with a different upper or vice versa, a myriad to optic options and stock configurations. Fun to mess with.

my .02

Lyle
 
#3 ·
I have an R15 carbine in 223. In this photo it is equipped with an EOTech 552 for low light hunting, but I've since changed it to a Leupold Mark AR 3-9x scope, which is more suitable for all around coyote hunting.

Accuracy is excellent. It will cut 1" groups at 100 yards with bulk remanufactured ammo, and half inch groups with premium ammunition and handloads.

The gun balances very well. It may be a tad light at the muzzle for some folks. In that case, I suggest the slightly heavier R-15 rifle. The carbine has an 18" barrel, which is a very good compromise between a 16" carbine and a regular 20" rifle. It has a bit more velocity, a bit less noise, and the gas port is moved forward two inches over the carbine. This is called a mid-length carbine. The gas pressure at the gas port is roughly 9000 psi less, and the recoil impulse is closer to a rifle than a carbine. There's less battering of optics. You can, though, accomplish about the same thing by installing a heavier buffer, like a 9mm buffer. (The R15 rifle has a 22" barrel, by the way, and gives more velocity, yet still isn't as awkward as the 24" barrels. It also has a mild report compared to even the 20".)

The barrel is fully free floated in an aluminum free float forend. If you use a bipod or sling, this does not put pressure on the barrel. The barrel itself is a medium weight. Note that there is no difference in accuracy with a quality heavy target barrel or a quality lighter barrel for the first couple or so shots. It's when the barrel starts to heat up that the difference becomes apparent. The R15 is NOT a varmint gun, meaning it was not designed for high volume fire. It was designed with coyote hunters in mind. In my opinion, this is the ideal barrel for that purpose. The barrel beyond the gas block is fluted. This does not add strength. Frankly, it doesn't really save much either, because the flutes are rather shallow. At best it helps cooling not from increased surface area, but from the bottom of the flutes being closer to the bore, allowing faster cooling of the inside of the barrel where it is hotter. This supposedly helps the barrel not shift as quickly. I do not know if this is a contributing factor to the accuracy of this gun, but it certainly does not hurt anything.

There are no sights on the R15s. They are designed for optics. However, Bushmaster makes a folding sight that can easily clamp onto the front gas block, and there's a whole raft load of rear sights, from fixed to folding. This means primary or backup sights can be installed, or at least the rear can be carried, or iron sights can be installed to cowitness with a red dot or EOTech.

The trigger is single stage, and is very nice right out of the box. It's good enough that I'm not going to change mine for a match trigger. Note that the Bushmaster version of this rifle (in 20" and 24") comes with a two-stage match trigger, which is why it costs more. Because the R15 trigger is a smoothed up AR15 trigger, it does have a long takeup compared to a bolt action. Creep is very little. Break is clean. It's glass smooth.

Reliability has been flawless. Because I use mine for hunting, I mainly shoot 5-round Bushmaster mags in it, which ain't cheap (about $30 each). They've been reliable. (Oregon regs restrict centerfire semi-autos to 5-rounds for all hunting.)

Finish. The R15 is camo dipped. I've had mine long enough, and have used it enough, to have some wear. The pistol grip is worn and chipping. I'm going to order a replacment. Some of the camo film is a bit thin on the edges around the front of the mag well, but it's still intact. The forend has a slight sheen to it from hand oils where contact is normally made, but this is common to any camo dipped gun.

The gun fits me quite well ergonomically. It comes up fast, and eye alignment with the scope is right there, using 1" height rings (as measured from the top of the rail, which is actually a Picatinny, not a Weaver, to the bottom of a 1" scope tube). There are plenty of positions to set a scope up for proper eye relief. I prefer my scope back more than most people, because I have neck alignment problems and can't crane my head forward. For the ultimate in adjustment, the R15 carbine is also available with a telestock, which can be set to different positions for length of pull.

If you want a semi-auto for serious coyote hunting, this is it.

One thing I would not do with the R15 is use it for plinking. The R15 is a hunting rifle. Get a cheaper gun or better yet a cheap upper for that, so you don't have to worry about burning out the throat. Oh, and that's another thing. The R15 has a 223 chamber, not a 5.56 NATO chamber. I only shoot 223 ammo in mine. I have other AR15s for burning 5.56 ammo.

As for a Mini-14, plinking is about all they're good for, with the exception of their target model. If a Ruger product is really wanted, get the Ruger SR-15. But it will cost more than an R15.
 
#11 ·
I have both...my mini 14 is reliable and accurate less then an inch at 100 yd consistently...however, I did change the barrel, different stock and worked the trigger down to 3.5 lbs...if money is not an object an altered mini 14 would be my pick...
Hey... but that's me...

Ugo
 
#14 ·
Bryan, would you explain to me the difference in .223 and 5.56 ammo? Is there a difference in size? In speed? In powder capacity? I honestly don't know what the difference is and I have reloaded both military and commercial brass for a long time. I haven't noticed a difference. My pet load is 21 grains of H322 with cci primer and a 52 grain boat tail HP.
 
#15 ·
Hoosier Daddy, it's not the external dimensions of the cartridges that are different, but rather the case thickness and loading, which leads to a difference in pressure (62,000 PSI for 5.56, 55,000 psi for 223, according to SAAMI).

The 5.56 chamber takes this into consideration, by allowing the bullet to free travel a fraction of an inch to keep pressures in check. The 223 did not have this pressure issue, so the chamber throat is not lengthened, which increases accuracy. The 223 can be fired in a 5.56 chamber, but SAAMI does not recommend firing a 5.56 in a 223 chamber because of the higher pressures. Despite this, people do it all the time. I'm not aware of any reported problems, but, it is not considered to be good practice.

On the other hand, CIP doesn't show any difference between the two cartridges for their pressure measurements. Wikipedia (at the link) explains this.

In addition, there are "compromise" chambers, like the Wylde (pronounced "will-dee") that are an attempt to make an accurate chamber yet will not have a problem with 5.56 cartridges.

As for the R15, Remington chambered it for the 223 to increase accuracy. Because it is a hunting rifle, those purchasing this rifle will probably have that use in mind, not plinking or using it for tactical matches. As I said I have plenty of AR15s for burning cheaper milspec ammo, and reserving my R15 for premium hunting ammo.

This link also explains the difference, with a drawing that shows the difference in the chambers.
 
#18 ·
I have a Mini-14 "Target" model, which gives very good results. I've installed an aftermarket rail on it, along with a 40 power scope and it shoots like this at 100 yards;





It has a sort of an M14 action and has been very reliable. I shoot it with
both 5 and 20 round magazines and it has not failed me once.
I'd like to have an R-15, just because one can never have too many rifles/pistols/shotguns....

Adamsribs

PS: The ammo used for that group is handloaded stuff, using Sierro Match King bullets.
 
#20 ·
I have an R15, CS 18"bbl, with my handloads I get 1/2" groups at 100. It is a great Coyote carry gun. I have a Tasco 3-9x40 on it.
I also have a Rock River PP, 20" bbl which I get 3/8" groups at 100 with the same loads I use in my R15, this has a Nikon BM 6-18x44 mildot on it, great for all day p-dog shooting.
I just use a 10 round mag when out calling coyotes.
 
#21 ·
Mini-30's are better now. Some of the first ones had .308" barrels because Bill Ruger used up the barrels intended for his ill fated XGI project. How do you safely use .310" to .311" bullets in a .308" bore? Ruger chambered for a .311 bullet, but after the throat had a taper in the bore from .311 to .308. This worked, but accuracy went out the door. The irony is Bill Ruger was such a stickler for SAAMI specs. Yeah, apparently until it came to a pile of barrels to use up.

As for "hits a little harder than a .22" (and I'm assuming .22 centerfire is meant) the 7.62x39 is in the 30-30 class. Out to around 125 yards the 30-30 has more power. Once that distance is reached, the 30-30 is surpassed due to its having a blunt bullet as compared to a pointed bullet. Keep in mind that the AR15 platform is available in various cartridges that are superior to the 7.62x39 for hitting power. The recent Remington .30 AR beats the 7.62x39 quite handily.

Having said that, I wouldn't mind a used Mini-30 stainless with a synthetic stock if the price was right for a bad weather short range deer rifle.
 
#22 ·
I have always been a ruger fan and each has its pluses The Mini will be more forgiveing as for accuracy I have taken chucks at 200yd with no doubt of hitting it BUT you have the options of all the different uppers available for the AR15s

But as said Ruger has now come out with an AR style to it. See if you can find someone who will let you and your buddy handle shoot them and see what just feels better. I my self have the Mini 14 ranch with a 3-9 trophy on it and never worry it with see threw rings.

Jerry
 
#25 ·
The guy who asked me this question has had experience with the Mini from security work he did years ago. I have handled both (Mini and AR) through military and security. This was several decades ago and I have not kept up on new developments. I also have not used either with optics, iron sights only. He is comfortable with the Mini due to his past, and would prefer a rifle that is made here in the U.S.A. His desire is to have a rifle that he can use for plinking, but still use for an occasional coyote, wood chuck, ect. There are some very good ideas here. I have copied and pasted some of the responses to him. But I think he may have to visit this thread himself! Thanks to all who responded.
 
#26 ·
The 30-06 was built in 1906, The original design of the M1 Garand was to use a 270 round with 10 rounds in the clip. The number crunchers did not want a rifle than could not use the billions of 30-06 ammo left over from WWI. Just think how many of our soldiers who were killed in WWII would have been around if they had those two extra rounds. I had a real close buddy of mine who was over run when he ran out of ammo. To this day he can't tolerate the sound of a M1 clip being ejected. It was the last sound he heard, just before he was wounded.

Phil Berkowitz
 
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