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MIA... POI Pattern board... in pics

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by JACK, Dec 20, 2009.

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  1. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    The first 3 pics we are shooting patterns at the pattern board at Minneapolis Gun Club on Saturday. You can see the impacts from a TM1 at 13 yards.

    <a href="http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n281/palletjack_2006/?action=view&current=MCshootingthetopleft.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    <a href="http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n281/palletjack_2006/?action=view&current=MCshootingthetopcenter.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    <a href="http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n281/palletjack_2006/?action=view&current=MCshootingthetopright.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    This is how we develop POI on a gun. We never buy a gun to shoot witout knowing hwere the POI is. And alwasy set up the new gun to the common POI we shoot as a rule.

    This set-up is about 70/30 I'd guess with this TM1 beads stacked.

    And this is the board clsoer

    The bottom row is my MX3 wiht a new stock and it shoots low at this setting.

    <a href="http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n281/palletjack_2006/?action=view&current=Patternboardclose.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>
     
  2. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Bar. Yes. I shoot typically to a pattern like this


    [​IMG]
     
  3. dannyw68

    dannyw68 Member

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    How do you get the patterns to stand out like that? And how would you 'erase' them to do it again?
     
  4. OldRemFan

    OldRemFan Member

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    erase them will some cheap paint and a roller, old brush, whitewash, etc.
     
  5. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Danny. Taht is a galvanized steel board. Many clubs use that. I just find that paper is unnecessary to establish POI. So I shoot right at the crosshatch and get those lite greyish hits. After awhaile you learn to see pattern tendencies too.

    But the spots go away (mostly) in a week and you can start over. Even wiht the mess I have created I can still get at least another 9 crosshathes to shoot at if I need to work on my new gun. Every time I alter my gun I take it out to see whare it shoots. I am putting a new stock on it for this week and will be back there checking thigs out again.

    Wear your glasses when you do this. I have been pelted by riccochets about a half dozen times, but only in bare legs. Other wise it is not at all dangerous.
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for putting those up again, Jack, as we talked about at the Minneapolis Gun Club on Saturday.

    It came up, as you remember, in the context of my marveling at this post on another thread. I'd asked how anyone could know the vertical point of impact of any gun to 1/100 inch, as we had just seen it quoted to, specifically high by "9.25 inches."

    "BTW, I measured POI heights with a tape measure, and averaged the results. That average was 4 5/8". The extreme spread could have been an inch or two. I only remember the average."

    As we discussed, that sort of averaging is totally inappropriate when applied to real POI tests, one of which you have posted here. Pattern centers move around, partly because of human error, partly because shotguns shoot a "pattern of pattern-centers." In the case of human error, it means that some of these POI's are "worth more" than the others and some shouldn't be counted at all; some are "better" and should be given more of a say.

    I suggested two approaches.

    1. Take the "mode," an expression of average which counts the "most common" result. See where it usually shoots and go with that.

    2. Mine is even more extreme. I keep my notebook by me when I shoot each shot, and if I have an impression of how the shot went, I write it down. Comment range from none through:

    1. NG No good

    2. OK OK

    3. Good shot. Give this some more influential weight. to

    4. Perfect shot.

    I accept "Perfect shot" (or better two or three of them,if available. They will be similar, though by no means identical) as where the gun shoots, as long as it has general support from the "good shot" cohort.

    It is expressed in inches at 13 yards, maybe half inches if it really, really falls midway. Anything expressed with a precision closer than that is smoke. I mean, look at your pictures! They move all around! You are going to average _them_ to the 1/100 inch?

    Neil
     
  7. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Neil. Thre is no doubt in my mind that all shooters should adopt your system. I just figured a way to make it easy for me. But those hits are real shots made by a real shooter using real full chokes at 13 yards.

    But the most telling thing is when we say to ourself... "Good shot". Those I believe in. Even at rest, some are jerky. But the "good shots" we must believe in. I have several "perfects" on this pattern board. They are easy to pick out. They are the same.

    This will not ba a popular thread, but it has tremendous value to a guy that is changing his guns or altering them.
     
  8. ultramag338

    ultramag338 Member

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    We use the same kind of metal. We have grease and a paint roller. After the shot we reroll the board and its clean again, a little grease lasts a long time. Just a thought we only pattern cheap remingtons. HAHA Merry Christmas all Good Shooting. Corey
     
  9. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Tim99. I do not argue that. But I want to know 2 things. 1) if the gun shoots strate horizontily, and 2) how high the gun shoots for me. When I mount the gun, I do not pay attentin to the beads just as if I was shooting a target and in that way I can figure out if I had the comb aligned properly.
     
  10. checker

    checker Member

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    Great Post MIA. Place a large "mailbox" shaped post & attached horizonal piece in ground for a shotgun rest.....7 feet tall...have a "sling" to put you shotgun in to hold and steady your aim....might get more "perfect" patterns. If not, have another swig.....Now this guy is DRUNK.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Chocolateman

    Chocolateman Member

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    "That is a galvanized steel board"

    I am interested in making this for my club. How thick is the steel board?

    Thanks
     
  12. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

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    The steel plate at my club is at least 3/16" maybe 1/4".


    Eric
     
  13. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    *I'm guessing ours is like Mixers. I'll chck it out Saturday if I cna get to the club. Talking 2' of snow on Thurs and Fri.
     
  14. craby boy

    craby boy TS Member

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    Did I get fooled doing pretty much as suggested here by using our pistol range set up for POI and the targets are a couple of feet higher than my shooting position?

    Thanks

    Pete
     
  15. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    I can't resist: A custom gunmaker, the late great Bill Cole, once told me that he rapid fired each gun he made before delivery. This was a latter stage quality check; sometimes barrels start shooting away from a consistent POI when they get hot. I once had an over-under that patterned beautifully. However, the gun shot very strangely in doubles competition. Not only for me, but for an AA shooter who tested it out. So I sold that "high grade" gun and my Browning XS gives much better service. "Shows to go you"....

    David
     
  16. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    David. As you know I am a Perazzi guy. But I have always loved my Brownings. Watching for the perfect one now.
     
  17. Bucko43

    Bucko43 Well-Known Member

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    What's all that white stuff all over the ground Jack?

    Kevin
     
  18. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Kev. Predicting 2' (not 2 inches) fo rThurs and Friday. Itll be a bitch around here.

    But we are tough.
     
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