1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Mercury Recoil Reducers, Opinion

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by gyrine, Feb 27, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. gyrine

    gyrine TS Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,081
    I have never tried a mercury recoil reducer and thought I would give one a try in My TM1. I would like to see some comments on the effectiveness of the things. Also any ideas on which one I should buy and where to get them. Thanks, gyrine
     
  2. B682GX

    B682GX TS Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    192
    installed one in my Browning Superposed. Couldn't feel a reduction in the recoil, and worse, it altered the balance of the gun, making it butt-heavy. Needless to say, I removed it.
     
  3. Scoutman 06

    Scoutman 06 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2006
    Messages:
    318
    I've tried mercury recoil reducers on a BT-99, a Citori Trap & a Beretta 390 & my experiences were the same as B682GX mentioned. I currently shoot a 682 Beretta with a PFS & an MX-8 with a Soft Touch. Although they cost considerably more, they actually work. John
     
  4. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2007
    Messages:
    930
    You are just as well off adding weight to your stock. In a pump or auto you can add an equal amount to the mag tube to equalize and maintain balance. I also see weights for O/U's that go under the forearm advertised. Additional weight = less percieved recoil. Also the least expensive method.

    As stated above, there are much more expensive methods that do work very well. Mercury Recoil reducers are a waste of money in my humble opinion.
    J.W.
     
  5. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    14,686
    Location:
    NW Wisconsin
    Yah-ah. But they slosh vhen you shake them.
     
  6. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    I have used them in the stock and chamber. They do reduce recoil but it is the weight that does this. If you want to add weight that includes something that will move around, a tube partially filled with shot will do the same thing. I did keep the mercury reducers in my stock and chamber until I got a PFS.

    Pat Ireland
     
  7. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    14,686
    Location:
    NW Wisconsin
    Pat. I am a big fan of a balanced gun. that is one of the reasons I do not back bore a Perazzi. I achieve balance with lead tennis raquet tape on the undeside of the bbl. In the past I have drill or augered out slots in a forend and added lead. That works fine. Not quite as good as tape, but the diffference is small. In gyrine's instance He can add 2-3 ounces in the forend, a like amount in the stock and gain some recoil reduction and not damage the natural pointing characteristics of the gun. I have tape on this gun. You can see it barely. It is not ugly. The tape allows me to counteract the weight of the Gracoil. An I might add that the Gracoil does a good job of dampening the thenderboomers I shoot at handicap.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    MIA- I agree that gun balance can be important but I don't know how to measure the balance other than how it feels when mounted. Guns are supported at three points (shoulder, right and left hands). I can't come up with a way to accurately measure how much upward force is exerted at these three points and I don't know where the balance point should be in relation to these three points. Perhaps you could help me.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. larrycrismond

    larrycrismond Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Messages:
    77
    Harland Campbell uses 2 mercury reducers in his gun, a 14oz and an 8 oz. The gun weighs over 13 pounds. Recoil is not your friend.
     
  10. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    14,686
    Location:
    NW Wisconsin
    Pat

    Pat. Yes on all counts. Balance is certainly a personal preference thing. But where I depart from that clear reality is that lead tape slows the gun to the target. A slower gun will have a faster trigger. Especially with a release. A slower gun wants to shoot the target on approach, rather than establish a lead. A light quick gun gets to the lead point, slows and then the gun goes off.

    So, the lead tape added in increments allows you to find the spot most comfortable to your current coordination rather than shooting 5000 targets to get your brain and your trigger in sync.

    Jack
     
  11. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    I've found through subjective testing of myself and several friends that the most effective recoil reducers are the ones with a spring-loaded weight that moves back under recoil and then is pushed forward by a spring. Dead Mule is probably the most popular and well-known of those products and Beretta makes a larger version of the same thing.

    I recently bought an 870 Competition and the recoil difference between it and my 870TC, which is a soft-shooter for an 870, is very noticeable. Those Competition guns have a weight in the magazine tube that is propelled backward by combustion gases and then propelled back forward by a spring that looks a lot like an 870 magazine spring. Same principle as the Dead Mule only heavier and more effective.

    Lots of weight can be added in a small space by placing some Mallory Metal, a material that is something like seven times more dense than lead, in the gun stock and adding some lead tape to the barrel to restore the gun's balance as Jack is doing. The photo below shows the various reducers I tested as well as a six-ounce piece of Mallory Metal on the far right. That stuff is commonly referred to as "heavy metal" by machine shops that use it to balance rotating parts like crankshafts. The piece in the photo is an inch high and about the diameter of a quarter.


    [​IMG]


    I now have that piece of Mallory Metal and the longer (16-ounce) mercury reducer in the stock of that 870 Competition to balance out the muzzle-heavy feel caused by the recoil mechanism in the magazine tube.

    Ed
     
  12. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    The ideal recoil reducing material is Mallory Metal except for the high price of it.

    Ed, by the time any moving weight behind a spring compresses enough to bottom out, the gun has slid backward some distance,no? While the gun makes that move it's acting against your shoulder, it has to.

    I use lead melted into copper tubing to make my recoil taming devices and they act quicker on instant recoil than weight remaining stationary while the gun compresses spring loaded types. Solid weight seated firmly in the stock acts on recoil instantly with less felt recoil. Some people can hear the inner clinking sounds some reducers make and swear it must work? I've bought about all of them and I've found that a solid weight works better and faster.

    My guns weight anywhere from 11-1/2 to 13 pounds also. One must pay for personal preferences in some fashion and I give up the balance for less felt recoil.

    Hap
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Hap- Gold is a much better than Mallory Metal for reducing recoil. Six or eight ounces will do wonders. Lead shot wrapped and taped inside a rag will also work.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    Hap, I can tell you that when I handed my 687 with one of Beretta's recoil reduction gadgets in the stock to a friend who shoots a 682, he turned after his first shot and said he couldn't believe how much less recoil he felt with my gun. Until then, he didn't know there was anything different about the two guns. And it wasn't a better fit causing the reduction - he's left-handed, I'm right-handed and my gun is not only equipped with a right-hand stock, it has 5/16" of offset so the fit was horrible for him.

    Ed
     
  15. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,226
    Location:
    Mesquite, Nevada
    Ed, any added weight helps! My point is, solid weight acts quicker on recoil by reducing what the shoulder feels. In a spring loaded apparatus, the weight must remain stationary till the gun recoils into that extra floating weight??? I don't have any idea what your gun weighs with the added weight but I can tell you my P O/U weighs close to 13 pounds. It's like shooting a BB gun according to those that have shot mine!

    Pat, that would certainly be a great way of increasing the value of a Mossberg Trapgun while reducing recoil at the same time! Good idea! :)

    Hap
     
  16. hopper810

    hopper810 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    72
    Beretta's recoil reduction gadgets in the stock

    if you don't mind my asking what type was it. i shoot a Beretta as well.
    thanks
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Hap is clearly correct. A floating weight that compresses a spring cannot move until the stock moves. And since the stock moves as a solid unit (exempting PFS), the stock must move against your shoulder before the weight will move against the spring. A simple way to demonstrate this it to take a spring loaded recoil device and bang it on your loading bench. With care, you can feel/hear when the spring begins to compress.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. wm rike

    wm rike Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    593
    Years ago a friend had a 3200 with small twin reducers. I don't know it they worked in tandem or had different cycle rates, but the gun had essentially zero felt recoil. When fired, it just kind of vibrated in your hands. I liked it. Never could get him to tell me what he had actually done.

    Ed - Mallory Metal is about 20% more dense than lead, not 700%
     
  19. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
    Hopper, see the photo above.

    Rike, thanks. I knew it was more dense and seven times just sounded like that was what I was told.

    Ed
     
  20. checker

    checker Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    383
    It's Physics.....recoil's force can't be reduced. Displaced, redirected and delayed....maybe/probably.....all these make felt recoil seem less.

    Three Laws of Motion
    Newton's First Law of Motion states that in order for the motion of an object to change, a force must act upon it, a concept generally called inertia.
    Newton's Second Law of Motion defines the relationship between acceleration, force, and mass.
    Newton's Third Law of Motion states that any time a force acts from one object to another, there is an equal force acting back on the original object. If you pull on a rope, therefore, the rope is pulling back on you as well.



    Controlling Shotgun Recoil

    By Randy Wakeman



    The recoil reduction industry is a huge one. In fact, it is very hard to read a manufacturer's catalog, harder yet to read a magazine article, and virtually impossible to find ad-copy that does not promise it.

    "Managed recoil loads" are available from many of the top shotshell manufacturers. Powders, wads, ports, pads, vests, forcing cones, mercury inserts, dead mules, over-boring, etc., etc., all promise to make shotgunning more comfortable. Does any of it matter? Well, let's look at a few of the popular recoil reducing methods.

    Confusing the issue with common sense, the first stop is physics. Shotgun weight affects recoil on approximately a "one-to-one" ratio. Add 10% to a specific shotgun's weight, it kicks about 10% less. Lighten our shotgun by about 10%; it kicks about 10% more. That's all there is to it.

    Muzzle velocity and ejecta (wad, shot, etc.) both affect recoil approximating a "two-to-one" ratio. Bump up the muzzle velocity by 10%, recoil increases by 20%. Increase our payload by 10%, again the free recoil goes up about 20%. That also, is about as simple as it gets. There are all kinds of ballistic programs that will give you a number to go along with it, if you need it, but that's about all there is from a "free recoil" standpoint. The matter of "felt" recoil is subjective, and most anything can be claimed in that department--and has been.

    I. Wads Reduce Recoil

    Cheap plastic resin wads are supposed to do all sorts of wondrous things, including sometimes reducing "felt" recoil. According to my shoulder, forget it. A lighter wad reduces "ejecta" mass, and will reduce free recoil, but not substantially. The "Windjammer" wads were supposed to reduce recoil, and often they did. In this case, it was because they often leaked like a sieve and reduced muzzle velocity. A few enterprising folks actually chronographed their loads, and the original "Windjammer" was replaced by the "Windjammer II." No longer did it seal so poorly, and no longer was it a "soft shooting wad." Forget the wad nonsense.

    II. Hard Shot Reduces Recoil

    This one is actually true, to a small degree. Most reloading tools (like my MEC 9000G units) drop shot by volume, not by weight. Hard ("magnum") shot has more antimony in it than chilled shot, and antimony weighs less than lead. So, yes, by a tiny amount a given MEC bushing dropping a high-antimony, extra-hard shot charge will produce a shell that produces less recoil than a soft ("chilled") shot charge dropped by the same bushing, if loaded to the same velocity. Unfortunately, it's not enough difference to notice.

    III. Porting reduces recoil

    This one has little basis, as there is so little gas pressure left in 12,000 PSI MAP (SAAMI maximum pressure) loads by the time the gas hits the ports that it can't do much of anything. The recoil reduction is minimal. Perhaps even sillier are ported choke tubes, which have even less pressure to work with. Drill enough holes in a perfectly good barrel, you will actually increase free recoil by a tiny amount, as you gun weighs a bit less.

    Super-large extended choke tubes can also weigh a lot more than factory flush-mount tubes, and if they weigh enough they will reduce free recoil by our "one-to-one" ratio. Is it time to bring back the Cutts Compensator so we can all go deaf together? Porting as a significant recoil reduction method is just full of holes.

    IV. Powder Type Reduces Recoil

    This is another abused term. Slower burning powders are supposed to give us more of a "push" than a shove. Unfortunately, most of the slower burning powders require higher powder charge weights, a component of free recoil, and can actually increase recoil.

    V. Mercury and Mechanical Recoil Reducers

    These cylindrical devices are usually implanted in the butt stock of a shotgun, inserted into the empty chamber of a double, or screwed onto the end of the magazine tube of a repeater. Theoretically, they use mercury or a moveable mechanical weight that is supposed to attenuate felt recoil by spreading it out over a longer period of time. The claim is that the mercury (or mechanical weight) moves forward in the tube as the gun moves backward in recoil, thus "borrowing" some of the recoil energy and lowering the maximum amplitude of the kick. The weight returns to its start position, redepositing the borrowed energy, after the stock stops moving backward.

    According to my shoulder, these devices seem to reduce recoil no more than adding weight in any other manner. (Adding weight, of course, does reduce recoil.) Dead Mules don't kick, perhaps, but they can nibble at your wallet. The mercury recoil reducers do add a humorous gurgling sound not available in stock factory shotguns. If mounted in the buttstock they also move the gun's point of balance back. This may be fine if the gun started out muzzle heavy, as many pumps and autos do, but is not so hot if the stock gun balanced properly.

    VI. Stock Fit

    There is no question in my young military mind that good stock fit can reduce felt recoil. It is, in fact, one of the most important factors in how we perceive recoil. A slap on the shoulder is far better than a slap on your schnoz, so (within reason) longer stocks may have less apparent recoil than shorter stocks. The comb must position your eye properly over the barrel rib without hitting you in the cheek on recoil. The butt plate should be sufficiently generous in surface area to spread the recoil over a large shoulder contact area.

    Take from my own personal stupidity of shooting guns that didn't fit far too often. The eventual result was oral surgery to remove scar tissue from inside my right cheek. Bleeding over a stock is a venture without much future in it. Let my pain be your gain.

    VII. Recoil Pads

    The word "attenuate" is rarely used, except when describing recoil pads. Recoil pads do soak up recoil, and reduce the velocity of the recoil pulse as well in a meaningful way.

    The best recoil pads on the market are the Kick-Eez and the Limbsaver. The choice between the two normally hinges on whether I seek to add weight to the butt of a shotgun to improve its balance. If I want a touch of extra weight, the solid and relatively heavy Kick-Eez pads get the call. If not, the lighter Limbsaver gets the nod. Both do a substantial and meaningful job of addressing felt recoil.

    VIII. Action Type

    Nothing kicks harder than a fixed breech gun and without question gas semi-auto guns have far less felt recoil than other action types. They achieve this by breaking up the recoil pulse into sections (the same recoil, but at lower level over a longer period of time), as beautifully described by Bob Brister is his book Shotgunning, The Art and the Science.

    To sum up, it is impossible to get away from muzzle velocity, payload, and gun weight as basic components of free recoil, because they are. Mercury recoil reducers add weight to the gun, but little else. Quality recoil pads make high-volume shooting more fun, as do gas-operated semi-autos. Most other recoil "fixes" have comparatively little value.

    The effects of recoil are cumulative, and you might not discover the difference until you've shot a case of shells. Then the difference between feeling essentially normal, or feeling like you've been pounded into the ground like a tent stake, is not that hard to discern.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

do mercury recoil reducers work

,
do shotgun mercury recoil suppressors work
,
how do mercury recoil reducers work
,
mercury dampening recoil springs
,
mercury for trap gun
,
mercury recoil dampening device for shotguns
,
mercury recoil reducer
,
spring recoil devices for shotguns