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Men's Olympic Trap Final- Monday

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by tencows, Aug 3, 2012.

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  1. tencows

    tencows Member

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    Men

    Just a reminder that the Men's Olympic Trap Final will be shown on Monday August 06, 2012 at 2pm EST. on MSNBC.

    Dennis B. Groce
     
  2. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Too bad no one in the USA could qualify inorder to shoot this event. HMB
     
  3. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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  4. ZEREX

    ZEREX TS Member

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    Sport Shot.
    Your comment is BULL$HIT.
    If those guys would have done thier job they would have madfew the quota.
    ASK ONE OF THEM, THEY HAVE THE GUTS TO TELL YOU.
    Thewe problem, USAS and the leadership. BOB MITCHELL.
    The fish rots from the head
     
  5. AEST BOSS

    AEST BOSS Member

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    No doubt about it....the best 34 Olympic Trap shooters in the world will not be standing in rotation Sunday. Some....but not all. Shame on us (USA) for not "playing the game" properly.
     
  6. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Olympic Quota Places

    What is an Olympic Quota Place?

    Participation in the Olympic Shooting events is not guaranteed. Each national shooting federation must earn "Quota Places" - one starting position to send athletes to the next Olympic Games. Only a total of 390 athletes will be able to compete in the 15 events across the Olympic disciplines at the Games.

    Quota Places are generally awarded when an athlete wins a gold medal at the ISSF World Cups or posts a top finish at the ISSF World Championships or Continental Championships Africa, America, Asia, Europe, Oceania - in the years before the Olympic Games.

    A Quota Place guarantees that someone from a given country - not necessarily the athlete who earned it - will be competing in that Olympic event. Each nation can earn a maximum of 28 Quota Places: one each in trap and skeet women, and two each in all other events.

    For the host country of the Olympics, there are reserved 9 Quota Places for in Trap and Skeet for Men and Women events; 50m Rifle 3 Positions Men and 10m Air Rifle Women events; the 25m Rapid Fire Pistol Men, 10m Air Pistol Men and the 25m Pistol Women events.
     
  7. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    Would somebody who does not speak in code comment abt why they think politics and well-paid fat white men has something to do with our shooters not winning a country slot for the O?

    Myself, although I could have missed something, I have not read of any World Cup, or Grand Prix that did not have a full compliment of our shooters, both M&F for every discipline.

    What am I missing?

    Tom? Hal?


    Bob
     
  8. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

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    Brian Burrows won Nationals this year with a 242. (121 average) Lance, Jake, Collin and Brian were all at or above 240 (120 average) for the qualifying portion of the event. (not including match final)

    There are 34 shooters in the Men's trap at London on Monday. Seven have a qualifying score under 120. Three are under 115.

    The rules are as clear as the BCS, you need to shoot those kinds of scores (120s) at the right times at the right events to earn the quota points.

    Certainly there is enough talent here on Team USA, I know several of them are determined to make it to Rio and contend.
     
  9. ZEREX

    ZEREX TS Member

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    If they only had a coach.
    The two shotgun winners of this year where NEVER coached by USAS.
    Currently,USAS has had two national coaches and one director that have all been dismissed or quite because of the "situation" at the top. Again, Bob Mitchell, cut the head off and the organization will flourish.
    The things that Bob Mitchell has stooped to are dispicable. There are shotgun shooters living on "dole" at the center in the springs that have never won anything in thier lives but thier part of Bob's crew and "its all good".
    Bob Mitchell has a Treasurer who is a significant supporter of USAS, that is why the tresurer's son ALWAYS has a spot on the Olympic team.
    Bob Mitchell will bend whatever rule he has to to insure the outcome
     
  10. PAR8HED

    PAR8HED Member

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    I'll take a whack at it, knowing that some won't like my answer. First a history lesson. Remember back to 1998 and Eddie the Eagle, a ski jumper from England. Somehow he managed to qualify for the games at the preceding world championships. At the games he basically fell off the jump, it was amusing and I'm sure irritating to some athletes. (there was also an incident with an african swimmer who probably needed water wings) Following the games, the IOC put a rule in place that required athletes to meet a minimum standard in their sport. This goes for all events, in swimming you need to make a certain time to qualify. In men's trap, the MQS is currently 112/125.

    To bring this around to the current discussion, once an MQS has been shot then the country needs to earn a Quota place. If you want the literal translation for quota place, it mean a bed in the Olympic Village. Each sport is allocated so many spots in the games. For London, there were a total of 390 quota places for ALL shooting events. For shotgun, a country can earn 1 female quota in Trap and Skeet. Men can earn 2 in skeet, double trap and trap. If you want to whine about the number of shooters in each event, blame the IOC, not USOC or US Shooting.

    Now, for those still confused on how to earn a quota, it's pretty simple actually. All you need to do is make your national team and then finish first or second at a qualifying world cup which happen the year before the games. That's why Ryan Hadden's wins do not qualify for quota spots, they happened outside the cycle. Quota spots were also available at the Pan Am games and Championship of the Americas. In rare instances, the 1st and 2nd place shooters had already earned a quota. In that case the quota for that event went to the 3rd place shooter. For those who complained about third world shooters, quota places were available at the African Championships as well as other continental championships.

    Now, for the complaining about Kim Rhode shooting in Trap. Corey Cogdell earned the spot at the Olympic Trials in May. (She also earned the quota at the COA games I believe) Bottom line, there was NO possible way that Rachel Heiden could have possibly made the games. Period. As Kim had already qualified as the SOLE quota place for skeet, (translation she already had a bed in the village) and she shot an MQS at the Tucson World Cup, she could enter Trap. So, despite having only 1 quota place available the USA managed to be the only country with 2 woman in the trap event. This is similar to how we managed to get both Josh Richmond and Glenn Eller in double trap.

    Now, on the mens side of things. 1 target. That was the difference between earning a quota spot and not going to the games. And I can guarantee you that the shooter in question is still unhappy over that target. We have a number of shooters who have earned an MQS, but it still takes a Quota spot to go.

    Finally, I hope you'll forgive me for a soapbox moment. I haven't double checked, but I'm pretty certain the only male shooter at Nationals this year with Olympic experience was Lance Bade. That should make things obvious. Our men simply haven't obtained the necessary experience. For those who say why aren't they getting it, I reply they are getting it. But this will not happen overnight. And speaking of our Junior Team. Right now they are trying to raise the money to go to the Junior World Championships in Iceland next year. Any help they get would be hugely appreciated I'm sure, but as of now no help is coming from USA Shooting.

    Finally, it's time to face facts. First, USA Shooting is not the shining star at the USOC. We don't, and never will, compete with swimming or gymnastics for money or resources. Does anyone really think we'll see Kim Rhode on the Wheaties box and doesn't she deserve it as much as the gymnasts? And what about our junior shooters? How many kids do you know that are great shots, but never had an opportunity to shoot on a bunker? Or even the whiff of a chance to shoot at a Junior Olympics? We all know the complete lack of bunkers in the USA and this does have an effect on the ability of junior shooters to experience, much less train for, Olympic trap. So before we cut off the King's head, let's check the reality dipstick and see where the things really stand.

    Soapbox over and my apologies for the long post.

    Hal
     
  11. pufftarget

    pufftarget Active Member

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    Hal's synopsis was very well done. The truth is our shooters did not perform as needed when required. They are capable but funding is needed to send them to overseas shoots to compete w/ those they will meet in the quota matches and other venues. This pertains to rifle and pistol as well. Funding that USA Shooting does not have. The lack of funding applies even when they go to overseas matches and funding does not allow for acclimitisation for the time change; particularly to Europe; west to east. Frankly, I'm surprised we do as well as we do!

    Incidently, Brian Burrows, men's champion at this years nationals, is from southern California. Go surfer dude!!

    Chuck
     
  12. perazziuser

    perazziuser Active Member

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    The problem was/is that quotas are being allocated to different matches late in the game after teams have already been set i.e. last quad CATs got quotas so we sent Erickson at the last second add on because we were short 1 in mens Trap. This quad Double Trap quota moved from Pan Am to CAT but we failed to make a change in the team.

    Ref CAT Games: USAS Policy states that CATs are a developmental match. IMO, when quotas are available, policy should be subject to change. If Quotas are available, get them. There are no guarantees in our sport. Send the best shooters where they are available, secure the quota, then play around with younger shooters and send them wherever you want.

    Ref Pan Ams: When I first came along you had to finish 1 and 2 in selection to make this team. I am not sure why the team is not fielded this way any longer. If it would have been 1 & 2 this last time Hadden would have had a shot for a quota at Pan Ams. No guarantees there either, as the Colombian shot a 123 + 24 (may be wrong).

    Bottom line I will do whatever I can through our athlete rep to try and get these policies where they need to be so that we can guarantee that we field an entire shotgun team to every Olympics and don't leave you all wondering why there are no Americans representing our country in a sport where we should be successful given our freedoms and access to the shooting sports. Take 1 & 2 to Pan Ams and leave CATs as a "developmental" match as long as there are no quotas. If they throw quotas on CATs you have to go get them....

    Jeff Holguin
     
  13. willing

    willing Member

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    All abreviations should be defined the first time used. Also common words like "quota" when used as a special meaning should be defined. You can't expect help or understanding unless you are clear.
    bill
     
  14. mette56

    mette56 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Bill. If you want to develop a following...then explain yourself with specifics. Buzz words and denotations are for insiders...few of them here.

    milt
     
  15. StonewallRacing

    StonewallRacing Well-Known Member

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    The ISSF rule book is only 450 pages.... Trying to pull this out in LAYMAN'S terms. Not easy when I've only been trying to learn the International game for just a year now. Jeff has been doing this a long time....

    Quota -- One starting position for the Olympic Games. (I've heard it referred to as a bed in the Olympic village.) The quota place can be achieved by a shooter in the Olympic shooting events at specially designated competitions. (Specific World Cup, Continental Championships and World Championships in last two years of a quad.) Quotas are awarded to Countries not individuals.

    Pan Ams -- Pan American Games

    CATS -- Continental American Championships

    Quad -- Four-year Olympic cycle.

    Think I got this straight.... SW
     
  16. PAR8HED

    PAR8HED Member

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    Jeff,

    Good points all.

    Hal
     
  17. eightbore

    eightbore Well-Known Member

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    Wait a minute. If Rhode could slip into the trap event because "she was there", why couldn't other countries have done the same thing? I'm sure other shooters shot qualifying scores out of their event.
     
  18. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    It is not the shooter that has the quota spot, it is the country that has earned the spot. HMB
     
  19. Baber

    Baber TS Member

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    Eightbore.... They could have provided they had a MQS in Trap or what ever event they chose to enter.

    Theoretically Kim could have run the 100 yard dash for example provided she had a qualifying time in that event.

    Tom
     
  20. perazziuser

    perazziuser Active Member

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    eightbore,

    Yes, other shooters could have done the same as Rhode, as long as they had a Minimum Qualifying Score (MQS) and their country had not already filled the spots i.e. if Eller, Richmond, Thompson or Hancock had an MQS in Trap, they could have shot it.

    Trap Bronze medalist Aldeehani from Kuwait (KUW) is a Double Trap (DT) shooter. Although he is a very capable Trap shooter looking at his results on the International Shooting Sports Federation's (ISSF) website (issf-shooting.org) he probably crossed over to shoot the trap same as Rhode.

    Jeff Holguin
     
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