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MEN'S OLYMPIC DOUBLE TRAP MATCH INFORMATION

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Reed, Aug 11, 2008.

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  1. Reed

    Reed TS Member

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    The Men's Double Trap qualification will take place today at 9:00 am Beijing time/8:00 pm CST.


    The start list, squadding, and rotations for all competitors can be found here:


    http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/SH/C51I/SHM402901.shtml#SHM402901


    Around 8:30 pm CST, the results link on that page will become active - Providing live updates as the scores come in. At the top of the page, there will be a "LIVE RESULTS" link in red. Click on that and it will open a page that will automatically refresh every 15 seconds.


    The final will be broadcasted live on NBCOlympics.com starting around 2:00 am CST. The link will be above the rotating news pictures in a red box reading something like "LIVE: Watch the Men's Double Trap Final Now." Click on that and the new window will pop up with the live streaming video. The link can be found on this page around 2:00 am CST:


    http://www.nbcolympics.com/shooting/index.html


    The USA has two competitors in this event...Come watch and cheer on the USA!
     
  2. Rico46

    Rico46 TS Member

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    The Olympic Results shows female Alaskan Trapshooter Corey Cogdell taking the Bronze Medal. Congratulations Corey on your fantastic finish in Beijing.

    Rick Brohmer
     
  3. Reed

    Reed TS Member

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    The Men's Double Trap competition has kicked off in Beijing. Scores will be available about 8:30-8:40 pm CST and can be found here:


    http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/CIS/SH/SHM402901.shtml#SHM402901
     
  4. Reed

    Reed TS Member

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    I'm guessing since Australia only has 1 competitor entered, they only won one quota place this quadrennial. Also, Diamond hasn't shot DT in "a while" -- that's the most specific answer I could get for you, sorry.
     
  5. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Glenn Eller tied for first with two others after one round with a 48

    Jeff Holguin tied with 5 others at 45
     
  6. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

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    DOUBLE TRAP


    Lester L. Greevy, Jr

    JULY 2004





    There are two variations of Olympic or International Trap, Trap in which a
    single target is thrown from one of the three traps in front of each of the 5
    shooting stations and Double Trap in which a pair of targets are thrown
    simultaneously from 2 of the 3 center traps.

    The center trap (8) throws a dead straight-away target to a height of 3.5 meters
    above the roof of the Bunker measured ten meters out. Trap 7, the left one,
    throws a target 5° to the left and trap 9, the right one, throws its target 5°
    right. Each are 3 meters high measured 10 meters out. All targets travel 55m
    (60.5 yards).

    There are three different schemes or patterns which determine which of the two 3
    center traps are used. Scheme A employs Traps #7 and 8, B uses 8 & 9 and C
    throws from 7 & 9.

    A built in delay of up to 1 second is used between the call for the target and
    the traps? release. This variable delay and the fact that the traps are set 1
    meter apart and the shooting stations are in a straight line with only the #3
    station being directly behind the active traps produces a very difficult game.

    Double Trap is shot in the same basic sequence as American Doubles, that is, a
    right hand shooter will shoot the right target first on stations 1, 2 & 3 and
    the left target first on stations 4 & 5. A left handed shooter will shoot the
    right target first on stations 1 & 2 and the left target first on stations 3, 4
    & 5. Sometimes for station 3 both right and left hand shooters will switch the
    sequence in order to shoot the straight away target first.

    Choke selection is similar to American Doubles and not as important as might be
    thought. Anything from IC to modified in the first barrel and modified to full
    in the second will get the job done. As in other trap disciplines, most of the
    better shooters tend toward tighter chokes.

    As in International Trap, there are 6 shooters on the squad. You shoot your
    target and after the shooter on your right shoots, you move to his station.
    Shooter 5 rotates to station 1 after his shot. Once the match starts, it
    continues uninterrupted until over. A match usually consists of 25 pairs from
    each of the 3 schemes, A, B & C, which equals 150 targets. A final is then shot
    by the 6 highest scoring shooters consisting of 25 pair of targets using scheme
    C.

    In the Olympics and at World Cups overseas, women shoot separately from the men
    and only shoot 20 pairs of targets from each setting and then a final of 20 pair
    from C. In the United States, the women shoot right along with the men and the
    same number of targets.

    The most effective technique for Double Trap is a little different then may be
    expected. The foot position and natural point of aim for a right handed shooter
    is set for the break point of the first target on stations 1, 2 & 3 and the
    second target on stations 4 & 5. That is the right hand target. So a right
    handed shooter sets his feet for the right hand target at every station. A left
    hander wants to set up for the second target on stations 1 & 2 and the first
    target on stations 3, 4 & 5, that is the left hand target. So a left hand
    shooter sets up for the left hand target.

    It is terribly important to watch the targets of the shooter preceding you and
    to get the line of the target down pat. Then the shot must be planned.
    Everything is dependent upon how efficiently the first target is broken.

    During pre-shot routine, the break point for the first target is selected and
    pointed at with the gun. Then the visual focus and gun are brought back down the
    line of the target and slightly below that line to establish the hold point
    where the gun will wait to anticipate the target. Then visual focus is removed
    from the gun and brought further back down the target line towards the bunker to
    establish the look point somewhere between the gun and the front edge of the
    bunker where the target is most easily and readily seen.

    Exact placement of the hold point and look point varies for each shooter and can
    only be learned through experience but there are some guidelines.

    The best techniques break the first target with a minimum of gun movement so the
    hold point is relatively high. The target is shot with a decreasing maintained
    lead. The target never gets to the gun. This is not a spot shot, but gun
    movement is minimal. It is what Army Marksmanship Unit Shotgun Coach Dean Clark
    calls a controlled ambush. Immediately after the shot, the eyes must go to the
    second target and the gun will follow.

    Soft visual focus on the look point, or target acquisition point is an absolute
    necessity. Proper selection of the look point is also crucial to consistent
    scores. Soft focus, proper selection of look point and pausing before calling
    the target (sometimes called Quiet Eye) will allow the eyes? peripheral vision
    to function as intended and lead your macular or central vision (which tracks
    and shoots the target) to the target in the most efficient and consistent
    manner.

    Because the angles are very shallow, 5° on setting A & B and only 10° on setting
    C, there is a great tendency to power the gun on past the second target. Many
    good shooters intentionally stop the gun on the second target before firing,
    especially on stations 2, 3 & 4.

    Double Trap is the most difficult of the Olympic Clay Target games. This is
    easily demonstrated by the fact that the minimum qualifying scores needed to
    shoot in the Olympics are lower for Double Trap then for Trap and Skeet.

    Double Trap is the newest of the Olympic Clay Target games, becoming a medal
    sport only in 1996. It is currently shot by both men and women, but will be
    eliminated for women at the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, China. The rules for
    Double Trap have also been in transition, the up-to-one-second delay having been
    introduced only in 2003. As a result, the doctrine and training techniques are
    still being developed, however some constants are appearing.

    I recently attended a Double Trap match at the Fairfield Sportsman?s Club in
    Harrison, Ohio. It was a small match, only 17 shooters, but it was attended by
    the United States Olympic Double Trap Team of Glenn Eller and Brett Ericson, as
    well as former Olympian Army shooter Bill Keever and USA Shooting Resident
    Athlete and current Pan Am Gold medalist, Jeff Holguin. I took two Juniors from
    my club.

    I watched with great interest as the best Double Trap shooters in the country
    shot their targets and I was surprised at the similarity and consistency of
    their techniques because a year and a half ago (before the delay) their
    techniques were very different. They have all evolved separately, although each
    certainly influences the others, to where they do many things the same. Here is
    how I see it.

    Double Trap is a lot like shooting pool. It is not so much putting the ball in
    the pocket as where you leave the Q ball to set up the next shot. As Assistant
    National Shotgun Coach B. J. McDaniel once said of a successful pool shooter,
    "well of course he ran the table, he had all easy shots".

    Double Trap is learned in 3 stages. First, break the first bird. Second, break
    the second bird; third, learn to break the first bird in a way and in a place
    that makes it easy to break the second bird. That?s where the good scores come
    from.

    The elements are these; first, absolute concentration and identification of the
    line of the first target from each station. Second, the precise selection of the
    target break point, the gun hold point and the visual look point. That allows
    the first target to be broken with minimal gun movement and in a place that
    allows a smooth transition from first target to the second target. Third, after
    the first shot, the eyes must go to the second target before the gun moves. The
    eyes must lead the gun. This gun movement must also be a minimal one to prevent
    the gun carrying on past the second target and missing beyond (where 80% of the
    misses occur).

    Holding down on the roof of the Bunker and chasing the first target will never
    yield good scores. It takes up too much time. The second target will be falling
    before you get to it. And it builds up too much muzzle speed, so you will blow
    through the second target and shoot beyond it.

    Minimal and efficient gun movement on both first and second target are the key
    to good scores.

    Double Trap is a great game. It is a technique rather than a reflex game. The
    doctrine is still being developed. Because it requires only 3 traps, it is a lot
    less expensive to get into then a full 15 trap bunker. It is a great place to
    start kids in the Olympic Clay Target Sports. It is where we started with the
    Youth Development Shotgun Team and one year later we produced the top Double
    Trap shooter in 5 out of the 6 Junior Olympic age groups and 3 Junior National
    records. In the 2004 Olympic trials 4 of the top 5 Juniors in Double Trap came
    from our program. Last month, three of our young men represented the United
    States in the Brazil World Cup as the Junior Double Trap team.

    For a young male shooter, Double Trap is a open avenue for advancement.
     
  7. kiwiG

    kiwiG Member

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    Hi Jerry, Others more knowledgeable than me will give better answers but...Olympic doubles are thrown from 2 fixed traps in a standard bunker. I think there are 3 different combinations of 2 traps used.On at least 2 of the combo's the targets are thrown at different heights, and even if the 2 traps are throwing straightaways, it means that from the outside lanes both targets are travelling the same side of center relative to the shooter. The targets are much faster and there is a small random delay built into the voice releases. Cheers-Graham.
     
  8. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    What is the cut-off in the preliminaries to determine who goes on to the final? Is it by cumulative score? If so, what score? How many will shoot in the finals?

    The field of men shooting DT is alot bigger than it was for OT - wow..
     
  9. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    browning,

    I believe the top 6 shooters advance to the final. Simply put, one squad.

    They'll shoot off to see who goes to the final if there is a tie for the last spot.
     
  10. starshot2b

    starshot2b TS Member

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    I thought so - but wasn't sure if they would shoot-off for a finals spot. Thanks for clarifying that for me. That is a long list of gentlemen to get through.
     
  11. 682 Adam

    682 Adam TS Member

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    I gotta say thats some impresive doubles shooting from your boy Walton, under the pressure of olympic competion,

    But GO....Russell Mark....GO
     
  12. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Glenn Eller leads by 3 targets after 2 rounds with a 48 and a 49.

    The Italian in second place with a 94

    Jeff Holguin tied with Australian Russell Mark at 93
     
  13. PFCSkoug

    PFCSkoug TS Member

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    eller won it by putting up another 48 and according to the web site that is also a new olympic record. jeff holguin took 3rd with a 140.
    Way to go team usa
     
  14. 682 Adam

    682 Adam TS Member

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    pfcskoug

    thats only the qualifiing rounds, the final is still to come with the top 6 shooters competing.....it looks like a good shoot off for the last spot..

    Go....Russell
     
  15. Reed

    Reed TS Member

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    The qualification round for Men's Double Trap is now complete. The final standings for all competitors can be found here:

    http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/SH/C70I/SHM402901.shtml#SHM402901

    Those entering the final are:

    Glenn Eller USA 48 49 48 = 145 (OR)

    Francesco D'Aniello ITA 48 46 47 = 141

    Jeff Holguin USA 45 48 47 = 140

    Binyuan Hu CHN 48 42 48 = 138

    Richard Faulds GBR 45 46 46 = 137

    Russell Mark AUS 45 48 43 = 136 +6 in the shoot off

    The final will be broadcasted live over starting at approximately 2:00 am CST. The link to the live video stream can be found at the top of the shooting homepage on NBCOlympics.com. At the top of the page there will be a red box reading something like "Live: WATCH THE MEN'S DOUBLE TRAP FINAL NOW!" Just click on that and you'll be able to watch both of the USA competitors vie for a medal live! The link can be found here:

    http://www.nbcolympics.com/shooting/index.html
     
  16. Ken X

    Ken X TS Member

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    They have a pink powder bag attached under the clay that breaks with the bird. They explained it on one video. Just to see it well.
     
  17. pb

    pb TS Member

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    what time is this going to be on TV?

    Jon
     
  18. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Did you notice the guy from Italy shoots a Beretta?

    Almost everyone else is shooting Perazzi.
     
  19. BMC

    BMC Member

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    Sport, I suspect in the case of Jeff, it was the screaming chinese audience breaking the silence just before Jeff would shoot. I could tell on several occasions he was "disrupted" by it. I can't believe they let the fans make that much noise.
     
  20. BMC

    BMC Member

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    I haven't read the controversy. I'll have to google around and see what is being said. I watched the live feed and clearly recall the incidents you mentioned. The first one was his second bird. On the screen I could see what "might" have been a chip. Hard to tell with a video feed. I think I remember the chinese shooter looking back at the official. The second one was about an identical scenario, second bird and I saw no chip, but the judge standing there must have. The third one I saw a chip. It was near the end of the round I believe.
    That isn't what seemed odd to me because seeing chips on a video feed or watching a video is really tough, pretty much impossible. What got my attention and still makes me wonder was about half way through the chinese shooter shot at his pair, the first boom-crush, the second boom.....prolonged time, then puff the target dusted. They showed a quick clip of it as the broadcast was nearing the end and you could see the shooter was already beginning to take his gun down, and the target broke. Now either that was one hell of a sloooooow load, or....well....we can only imagine I guess.
    Either way, Jeff had a bad round and seemed to really struggle on those second targets from #4 and #5. Fauld seemed to struggle on the same stations too. Eller looked incredible and the Italian had a nice rally.
     
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