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Medicare is for Old People

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by crusha, Aug 19, 2009.

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  1. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Old People have paid taxes into the Medicare system their whole lives to earn the benefits...now Obama wants to take 40~50 million young people (who have basically paid little or nothing into the system) and basically expand it to cover them, as well.


    So - it bankrupts the system even worse, and Seniors will have to accept less care, so that non-productive younger people can get it for free.


    Sound fair to you?


    Use the link at the top of the threads to write your Congressman & Senators, and tell them the following:

    1. I'm an independent, and...

    2. I'm voting AGAINST anybody who supports the Public Option or the same thing by any other name.


    ...it's as simple as that.


    If you're from Indiana, you really only have to concentrate on Evan Bayh. He's a key swing vote for the Blue Dog Democrats on Healthcare. Currently he's rumored to be against the Public Option, and the Left-Wingers are gearing up to attack him from within & are really after him. We have to make sure we let him hear from the other direction.
     
  2. Milkbone

    Milkbone TS Member

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    There is no "public option", it's really a "government option" but that doesn't poll as well as public option.
     
  3. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Evan Bayh, I wonder what he is going to do? I've gotten a mish mash response from his office on his position on health care. My reading comprehension isn’t the best, but from what I got in his response was that - he wished good health for everyone. Well hell, I can’t disagree with that, who can?


    Evan Bayh’s wife Susan was or is, a director with “Wellpoint” one of the largest Anthem/Blue Cross providers in the nation. Wonder, if watching what she does with her stock position in “Wellpoint” will give us any indication of his position on healthcare other than he wishes good health to everyone?
     
  4. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    Bisi,

    Evan Bayh could well be one of the votes that keeps the Dems from getting what they want. A centrist Democrat who already had a job before Obama came along, and wants to keep it that way.

    If you look at the foaming-at-the-mouth Retard Liberal blogs, they seem hugely concerned about Evan Bayh's stance on HCR, and seem to feel he's not their friend at all on the Public Option.

    Along with Lugar, there's two votes they won't be getting, if we can help it...
     
  5. Turtle29728

    Turtle29728 TS Member

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    Look closely and objectively at the health care system and you will find that what has CAUSED the health care mess is, in fact, Government meddling with the health care industry. Medicare, medicaid, and the HMO/PPO structure (basically a government endorsed semi monopolistic system in which huge insurance conglomerates have the ability, due to their size, to negotiate ridiculously low rates for services). Take a look at what a medical provider charges an uninsured patient for a particular service as compared to what a charged by the same provider to a medicare/medicaid/ HMO/PPO insured for the same service and you will see why health care is beyond reach for so many Americans. I can show you many examples of this, the worst of which is a recent incident in which a Blue Cross insured "paid" (through his insurance company) the sum of $2300 for services the provider billed at $22,000.00(the price which would have been charged to an uninsured patient). The situation is much the same with the government run medicare and medicaid programs.Don't believe it, research it and you will find the truth. Government isn't the answer to this mess. It is the problem!
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Green Bay Wisconsin
    Turtle, I couldn't agree more. When I ask the provider what MY discount is she usually is dumfounded and stutters some BS about the prices being "negotiated".

    The healthcare system would work fine if the lawyers and insurance companies were defanged, and the courts forced to follow guidelines for damage settlements.

    I had a friend who had to have a pacemaker redone (on his dime) because the doctor had attached it insecurely and it got infected after bouncing around in this chest a year.

    The lawyers he talked to were busy defending doctors in malpractice actions, and would not take his case. They said he had not "suffered" enough, and therefore they would not get a big enough fee.

    they also said he was definitely in the right.

    what a crock.

    HM
     
  7. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    The main reason Medicare, Social Security, and all is in trouble is because the funds were mixed into the main budget rather than kept separate as they should have been. I don't remember who did that but I'm sure someone here will know but it doesn't matter it's done. Once the politicians could get their hands on those funds they spent them, now the money is not there for those who paid into it. Can you only imagine what they will do if they can get their hands on all of the money in the public health care system?
     
  8. Turtle29728

    Turtle29728 TS Member

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    sliverbulletexpress
    There is some truth in what you say, but there is also one very important flaw in your logic. You fail to take into account that both medicare and social security are based upon a premise that is itself flawed---the assumption that there will always be an expanding workforce of sufficient size in each succeeding generation to pay for the benefits provided to the elderly by these programs. This faulty assumption, coupled with an increase in longevity due to advances in medical technology and pharmacology,(therefore folks are living longer)has doomed both programs to eventual bankruptcy, even if there was a "trust fund" to fund them. There simply aren't enough tax payers to support the expanding number of beneficiaries. That is why social security and medicare taxes have continually risen over the entire course of my working life. I am self employed and believe me, I know how much they have increased over the course of the last 40 years. I am 59 years old and will be retiring myself in a few years. That is if anything is left of my IRA (it lost 45 % of it's value since January 1) and if there are enough young people working and paying taxes to pay for my social security and medicare benefits. I doubt it!
     
  9. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Turtle, are you saying there is no way an insurance company can stay solvent?
     
  10. Turtle29728

    Turtle29728 TS Member

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    No, not at all, but everyone insured by a private insurance company (whether it be health, diability or some other kind of coverage) pays premiums for their coverage, based upon the companies actuarial analysis of their claims payment history and premium income. By contrast, EVERYBODY over the age of 65 gets medicare, even if they have never worked a day in their life and have paid no premiums into that system. Many disbaled persons get SSI benefits (althogh very little in amount) who have never worked or paid a dime in social security taxes. The minor children of disabled adults draw social security benefits until they are 18 years of age.Minor childern of social security retirees do as well. It is a not uncommon practice for retired persons on social security to adopt their children's illigitimate offspring. Once they have done this, the grandchildern draw social security survivors benefits until age 18,even if the grandparents die,and even if the natural parents never work a day in their lives.I could go on and on, but I believe that the point is made.There are too many takers and not enough people paying the cost of these programs. The situation would likely be better if there were a trust fund, but it is justt as likely there would still be a deficit for these programs. As stated above, I am 59. When the baby boomers (of which I am one) reach retirement age in full force over the next 5-10 years,and become eligible for medicare, these programs will collapse, if they continue as they are presently constituted.Of corse, the rules will likely change. My parents retired at 65. As you may be aware, that has been changed. My full retirement age for social security purposes if 67. By the time I get to that age, I expect it will be raised again to 70 or higher. Who knows?
     
  11. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    What portion of the public will just up and quit working, once healthcare is "free?"
     
  12. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Let's all go to Canada!


    "Canadians visit U.S. to get care

    Deal lets many go to Michigan hospitals

    BY PATRICIA ANSTETT
    FREE PRESS MEDICAL WRITER

    Hospitals in border cities, including Detroit, are forging lucrative arrangements with Canadian health agencies to provide care not widely available across the border.

    Agreements between Detroit hospitals and the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care for heart, imaging tests, bariatric and other services provide access to some services not immediately available in the province, said ministry spokesman David Jensen.

    The agreements show how a country with a national care system -- a proposal not part of the health care changes under discussion in Congress -- copes with demand for care with U.S. partnerships, rather than building new facilities.

    Michael Vujovich, 61, of Windsor was taken to Detroit's Henry Ford Hospital for an angioplasty procedure after he went to a Windsor hospital in April. Vujovich said the U.S. backup doesn't show a gap in Canada's system, but shows how it works.

    "I go to the hospital in Windsor and two hours later, I'm done having angioplasty in Detroit," he said. His $38,000 bill was covered by the Ontario health ministry.

    Canada eyed in the health care debate

    Dany Mercado, a leukemia patient from Kitchener, Ontario, is cancer-free after getting a bone marrow transplant at the Barbara Ann Karmanos Cancer Institute in Detroit.

    Told by Canadian doctors in 2007 he couldn't have the procedure there, Mercado's family and doctor appealed to Ontario health officials, who agreed to let him have the transplant in Detroit in January 2008.

    The Karmanos Institute is one of several Detroit health facilities that care for Canadians needing services not widely available in Canada.

    Canada, for example, has waiting times for bariatric procedures to combat obesity that can stretch to more than five years, according to a June report in the Canadian Journal of Surgery.

    As a result, the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care in April designated 13 U.S. hospitals, including five in Michigan and one more with a tentative designation, to perform bariatric surgery for Canadians.

    The agreements provide "more immediate services for patients whose health is at risk," Jensen said.

    Three Windsor-area hospitals have arrangements with Henry Ford Hospital, Detroit, to provide backup, after-hours angioplasty. Authorities will clear Detroit-Windsor Tunnel traffic for ambulances, if necessary. The Detroit Medical Center also provides Canadians complex trauma, cancer, neonatal and other care.

    "In the last few years, we've seen more and more Canadian patients," said Dr. J. Edson Pontes, senior vice president of international medicine at the DMC. They include Canadians such as Mercado, whose care is reimbursed by Canada's health system, as well as people who pay out of pocket to avoid waiting in Canada.

    Pontes declined to give revenue figures for the DMC's international business, but said the program "always has been a profitable entity." About 300 of the DMC's 400 international patients last year came from Canada, he said.

    Tony Armada, chief executive officer of Henry Ford Hospital, said the hospital received $1 million for cardiac care alone.

    Critics of a health care system like Canada's -- a publicly funded system that pays for medically necessary care determined by provinces -- often cite gaps in Canada's care to argue that the United States should not allow its current debate over health care to move it to a socialized system.

    No plan currently under discussion in Congress calls for a universal plan like Canada's, but opponents fear socialized medicine, anyway.

    Canada's U.S. backup care "speaks volumes to why we don't need government to take over health care," Scott Hagerstrom, the state director in Michigan for Americans for Prosperity, said of the Canadian arrangements with Michigan hospitals. "Their system doesn't work if they have to send us their patients."

    But Dr. Uwe Reinhardt, a Princeton University health economist who has studied the U.S. and Canadian health systems, said arrangements with cities like Detroit "are a terrific way to manage capacity" given Canada's smaller health care budget.

    "This is efficient," he said. "At least in Canada, you don't worry about going broke to pay for health care. You do here."

    Pat Somers, vice president of operations at Windsor's Hotel-Dieu Grace Hospital, one of the hospitals that sends patients to Henry Ford, said the issue of finding ways to pay for and prioritize care requests is not in only Windsor.

    "The ministries are quite aware of" waits for care in Sarnia and Hamilton, she said. "That's why we are investing in a wait list strategy" to best determine how to prioritize cases for people who need hip and knee replacements, cataract surgery and treatment for cancer, for example.

    Mercado, 26, faced a longer wait because he could not find a matching blood donor, even though his family conducted a broad search.

    He said doctors told him money was limited for transplants, particularly ones using unmatched donors, which are riskier.

    After his family's doctor wrote the Ontario ministry, the agency agreed to pay $200,000 for the operation.

    The family, their church and Mercado's school, Conestoga College in Kitchener, raised another $51,000 to cover expenses going back and forth to Detroit.

    "I think of this every day as a gift from God," Mercado said. "
     
  13. brigade

    brigade TS Member

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    buzz

    Yeah, and those young people are ILLEGAL ALIENS. Send them back, get them out of the U.S. Ed
     
  14. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    "Now, it turns out that our government is still using our tax dollars to hire Blackwater mercenaries (under a different name) instead of using our military at half the cost. Whats up with that?"


    Ask hussein,,,flincher,,ask hussein!!!!!



    "guess who started a couple wars"


    Ask hussein and the dumocrats about one of them,,,flincher,,,ask them!!! They were 100% for one of them.....
     
  15. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    So now if I as an American am in Detroit, needing a procedure, I will have to wait for someone from a foreign contry since their healthcare program doesn't work????

    Another libby changing or twisting the subject to try and hide what is going on!!!!
     
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