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McCain doesn't meet legal criteria for pres?

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Feb 27, 2008.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a McCain fan, but somebody is really reaching on this. If he was born on a US military base to American parents, even in another country, that makes him an American in my eyes. This reeks of some legal twisting that shysters like the Clintons would do.<br>
    <br>
    http://www.iht.com/bin/printfriendly.php?id=10514626<br>
    <br>
    McCain's birthplace prompts queries about whether that rules him out<br>
    By Carl Hulse<br>
    Thursday, February 28, 2008<br>
    <br>
    WASHINGTON: The question has nagged at the parents of Americans born outside the continental United States for generations: Dare their children aspire to grow up and become president? In the case of Senator John McCain of Arizona, the issue is becoming more than a matter of parental daydreaming.<br>
    <br>
    McCain's likely nomination as the Republican candidate for president and the happenstance of his birth in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936 are reviving a musty debate that has surfaced periodically since the founders first set quill to parchment and declared that only a "natural-born citizen" can hold the nation's highest office.<br>
    <br>
    Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.<br>
    <br>
    "There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent," said Sarah Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. "It is not a slam-dunk situation."<br>
    <br>
    McCain was born on a military installation in the Canal Zone, where his mother and father, a navy officer, were stationed. His campaign advisers say they are comfortable that McCain meets the requirement and note that the question was researched for his first presidential bid in 1999 and reviewed again this time around.<br>
    <br>
    But given mounting interest, the campaign recently asked Theodore Olson, a former solicitor general now advising McCain, to prepare a detailed legal analysis. "I don't have much doubt about it," said Olson, who added, though, that he still needed to finish his research.<br>
    <br>
    Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina and one of McCain's closest allies, said it would be incomprehensible to him if the son of a military member born in a military station could not run for president.<br>
    <br>
    "He was posted there on orders from the United States government," Graham said of McCain's father. "If that becomes a problem, we need to tell every military family that your kid can't be president if they take an overseas assignment."<br>
    <br>
    The phrase "natural born" was in early drafts of the Constitution. Scholars say notes of the Constitutional Convention give away little of the intent of the framers. Its origin may be traced to a letter from John Jay to George Washington, with Jay suggesting that to prevent foreigners from becoming commander in chief, the Constitution needed to "declare expressly" that only a natural-born citizen could be president.<br>
    <br>
    Duggin and others who have explored the arcane subject in depth say legal argument and basic fairness may indeed be on the side of McCain, a longtime member of Congress from Arizona. But multiple experts and scholarly reviews say the issue has never been definitively resolved by either Congress or the Supreme Court.<br>
    <br>
    Duggin favors a constitutional amendment to settle the matter. Others have called on Congress to guarantee that Americans born outside the national boundaries can legitimately see themselves as potential contenders for the Oval Office.<br>
    <br>
    "They ought to have the same rights," said Don Nickles, a former Republican senator from Oklahoma who in 2004 introduced legislation that would have established that children born abroad to American citizens could harbor presidential ambitions without a legal cloud over their hopes. "There is some ambiguity because there has never been a court case on what 'natural-born citizen' means."<br>
    <br>
    McCain's situation is different from those of the current governors of California and Michigan, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jennifer Granholm, who were born in other countries and were first citizens of those nations, rendering them naturalized Americans ineligible under current interpretations. The conflict that could conceivably ensnare McCain goes more to the interpretation of "natural born" when weighed against intent and decades of immigration law.<br>
    <br>
    McCain is not the first person to find himself in these circumstances. The last Arizona Republican to be a presidential nominee, Barry Goldwater, faced the issue. He was born in the Arizona territory in 1909, three years before it became a state. But Goldwater did not win, and the view at the time was that since he was born in a continental territory that later became a state, he probably met the standard.<br>
    <br>
    It also surfaced in the 1968 candidacy of George Romney, who was born in Mexico, but again was not tested. The former Connecticut politician Lowell Weicker Jr., born in Paris, sought a legal analysis when considering the presidency, an aide said, and was assured he was eligible. Franklin D. Roosevelt Jr. was once viewed as a potential successor to his father, but was seen by some as ineligible since he had been born on Campobello Island in Canada. The 21st president, Chester Arthur, whose birthplace is Vermont, was rumored to have actually been born in Canada, prompting some to question his eligibility.<br>
    <br>
    Quickly recognizing confusion over the evolving nature of citizenship, the First Congress in 1790 passed a measure that did define children of citizens "born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States to be natural born." But that law is still seen as potentially unconstitutional and was overtaken by subsequent legislation that omitted the "natural-born" phrase.<br>
    <br>
    McCain's citizenship was established by statutes covering the offspring of Americans abroad and laws specific to the Canal Zone as Congress realized that Americans would be living and working in the area for extended periods. But whether he qualifies as natural-born has been a topic of Internet buzz for months, with some declaring him ineligible while others assert that he meets all the basic constitutional qualifications — a natural-born citizen at least 35 years of age with 14 years of residence.<br>
    <br>
    "I don't think he has any problem whatsoever," said Nickles, a McCain supporter. "But I wouldn't be a bit surprised if somebody is going to try to make an issue out of it. If it goes to court, I think he will win."<br>
    <br>
    Lawyers who have examined the topic say there is not just confusion about the provision itself, but uncertainty about who would have the legal standing to challenge a candidate on such grounds, what form a challenge could take and whether it would have to wait until after the election or could be made at any time.<br>
    <br>
    In a paper written 20 years ago for the Yale Law Journal on the natural-born enigma, Jill Pryor, now a lawyer in Atlanta, said that any legal challenge to a presidential candidate born outside national boundaries would be "unpredictable and unsatisfactory."<br>
    <br>
    "If I were on the Supreme Court, I would decide for John McCain," Pryor said in a recent interview. "But it is certainly not a frivolous issue."
     
  2. ArmyMechanic

    ArmyMechanic Member

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    so wait... all of us military people who have children born outside this country are not natural born citizens?? hmmmmmm I didnt ask to be in germany when my son was born... I do belive i was transfered there against my will... hmmmmmmmmmmmm
     
  3. A23B

    A23B TS Member

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    I guess what I would look at is that in most all these cases the man was out side of the country serving it.

    The woman was out side of the country by her own free choice.
     
  4. shadow

    shadow Active Member

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    What a wonderful turn of events. The son of a naval officer stationed outside the U.S. cant be the president, but the child of illegal aliens can. Absolutely amazing what some folks can come up with.
     
  5. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    This is silly.

    John McCain had to file Federal Election Papers to run for president. He ran in 2000 and in 2008. The circumstances of his birth were not an issue when he filed.

    Ed Ward
     
  6. geneleroy

    geneleroy TS Member

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    My son-in-law was born to Germany citizens while at sea, in international waters, aboard the USS United States Liner, on the way to the USA. He was the first child to be born on that ship. He is a US citizen by birth and has a birth certificate to prove it, signed by the ships captain! His auto licence plate is "BORNATC".
     
  7. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    The Democrats should be careful of what they wish. The backlash, when there is one, will haunt them.

    Best,
    Dennis
     
  8. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Does McCain meet the legal criteria to shoot trap?
     
  9. Bruce Specht

    Bruce Specht Well-Known Member

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    I'm so tired fo the process and the coverage of politics, and the primaries aren't over. We have 8 more months of bull crap to listen to before this is over. Not only are politicians and the process skewed but so is our press and the coverage that some politicians get versus others based on the affiliation of the company covering the politics on any given day.
     
  10. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    One of my children was born in England on a military installation and was a US citizen by birth but at age 21 he had a choice whether he wanted to be US citizen or British. Jackie B.
     
  11. Msuhunter

    Msuhunter Member

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    Not to worry someday the USA will have a candidate run that had parents who were illegal aliens but because they were born in USA they would be a citizen.
     
  12. laura!

    laura! Member

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    Isn't a military installation on foreign land, like an American embassy considered American soil while being used as such?
     
  13. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    They could be on the moon for all thaAt matters.

    The fact is that any child born anywhere in the universe with A citizen mother and a citizen father is automatically a US citizen.

    Time for the pukes to stir the pot, it would seem.

    I can't wait till they try and "Swift Boat" McCain.

    New york times must be dreaming this horse poo up.

    HM
     
  14. Wildman23

    Wildman23 TS Member

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    HEY YA KNOW WE HAVE A CANDIDATE RUNNING NOW WHO'S PARENTS ARE ALIES TO THE UNITED STATES. NEITHER ON OF THEM WERE BORN HERE AND NOW THEY DECIDE TO MOVE OVER HERE AND TELL THEIR SON HE SHOULD RUN FOR DANG PRESIDENT I TELL YA THIS COUNTRY IS GOIN TO GO TO POT IF THAT BARRAK HUSSAIN OBAMA GETS INTO THE PRESIDENCY. OOOOOOO BUT BACK TO THE McCAIN THING I THINK HE WOULD MAKE A GOOD PRESIDEN AND EVEN IF HE WAS BORN IN ANOTHER COUNTRY HE IS STILL BORN TO TWO UNITED STATES PEOPLE AND HIS DAD WAS SENT OVER THERE AND DIDNT HAVE A CHOICE.
     
  15. Little Dog

    Little Dog TS Member

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    He was born in the Canal Zone, which at that time, was US soil. It stayed that way until Jimmy "the rabbit hunter" Carter gave it away.
     
  16. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    zarathrusta, I think you misread Brian's post. He stated that while he was not a McCain fan, he felt the left ewas REALLY reaching on this one and I agree, only a looney toon left wing whacko, would claim a child born to military parents outside the country was not a natural born citizen! It just shows what a bunch of low life whack jobs the liberals are! My guess the dirt bag who printed this wouldn't have ANY problem with an anchor baby from illegal aliens someday being nominated. As school teacher stated, It wasn't a problem when McCain filed federal election papers before! Just proves left wing liberals are Lunitcs!
     
  17. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Obviously I'm not a McCain fan. But I call'em like I see'em, and this sabotage "someone" is pulling on McCain smells of yesterday's diapers.
     
  18. jackmitch

    jackmitch TS Member

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    i've told my forman all along as soon as it looks like mcain has the nomination locked up that the press would be all over him and it won't make any difference whether it's true or not some people will believe it. first the affair rumor and now this. when it was darling bill and it wasn't a rumor, it was just sex, so what. the old double standard. it's just beginning so look out.jackmitch
     
  19. davnport

    davnport Member

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    Someone has said 'It's a good thing McCain's birthday isn't 29 Feb; some Dim idiot would be saying he's not yet 35 years of age...
     
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