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Martins' money at the Grand

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by william miller, Aug 17, 2011.

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  1. william miller

    william miller TS Member

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    Martins

    I have noticed different times the comments about the Martins' contribution to the Grand, is the reason there still is a Grand. The Grand has been going on for over 100 years now; and I don't doubt that it will continue for many years to come, even if the Martins' did not contribute; but would the Cardinal Center even exist if Fishburn had not spent his millions to create it? The Martins' generous gift has created new life into the trap shooting game at the Grand; and it certainly increased the participation; for which I personally am glad to see happening. To the Martins'; I say thank you; not only for the generous donation, but also for supporting the shoot by shooting in the events. Mr. Fishburn; I do not understand how you will ever see a profit in the Cardinal Center; but I am glad that you have provided a place for all who refuse to attend the Grand because it is not in Ohio.
     
  2. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The final numbers showed an increase of seven people (7) not the 21.5 percent that got posted on a different thread ... It would of been nice, but someone was nice enough to inform me of the latest news and the real increase in numbers ... I have not verified it and am posting what I was told, really whats the difference ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  3. mollyone

    mollyone TS Member

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    WPT------Then why would you post a rumor
     
  4. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I just checked out RJS's site and its true, no longer a rumor ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  5. Simone

    Simone TS Member

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    WPT,

    What number you verified from RJ's site? Total shooters? You need shooters per event. I was there at the Grand there was a HUGE increase in ALL events during Grand week.
     
  6. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The total number of shooters can only produce so many entries, some events may have more and some less ... The lesser amount of shooters in the total amount will increase and or decrease an events size by big percentages because the total numbers overall are low ... There is a big difference between 20% of 3000 and or 20% of 10,000 ... The difference between 2010 and 2011 total shooters as posted on the RJS site is slight ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  7. Simone

    Simone TS Member

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    Excuse me! 3474 shooters shooting all 21 events is a big difference from 2000 shooting 10 events and 3000 shooting 11 events. What is you math from information from RJ’s site?
     
  8. lc

    lc TS Member

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    I was told that the increase was 8 shooters. The difference was in doubles because of the Lewis class that everyone entered. They would not be eligible for the HOA or HAA.
     
  9. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    WPT:

    I know you are not one of the posters that can't follow any data they see in front of them, but what you are saying is still truly misleading.

    The total number of shooters isn't what was being discussed (or at least what people were referring to anyway) when the 21.5% increase was thrown about. The important number is entries, not bodies. There is no question 2011 participation was up significantly over 2010, EDIT: Grand Week was up 21.6% or 3,359 entries. That is significant.
     
  10. GrubbyJack

    GrubbyJack Member

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    I would like to know the number of ATA shooters total (that is count only by using the ATA Number ). Not how many shot each event, (if I shot events 2, 5, 8, 10, 14 does that count as 5 or just 1). Grubby
     
  11. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Grubby:

    I believe that is the number WPT is talking about.
     
  12. Simone

    Simone TS Member

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    Grubby,

    Counts as 1 on RJ's site. There were 3,474 individual shooters not all shot all events.
     
  13. GrubbyJack

    GrubbyJack Member

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    Thank you, Grubby
     
  14. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    870 and Grubby Jack,

    Those are the numbers I am talking about ...

    Simone, the per event numbers can be misleading when you talk percentages versus actual numbers, by percentage you are right ...

    I didn't look at the per event totals, but in checking it out I see what Simone is talking about ... It appears that less than 50% of all the shooters played the Martin Lewis money, thats a surprise ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  15. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    WPT:

    "Simone, the per event numbers can be misleading when you talk percentages versus actual numbers, by percentage you are right ... "

    Actually WPT, comparing apples with oranges can be misleading and that is all this thread is doing at this point. No matter how you slice it, participation was way up this year. EDIT: Over 21% and over 3,350 additional entries during Grand week. Those are actual numbers, and they are the ones I'm most interested in.

    You are correct about the number of different individuals shooting, I don't disagree with you on that. That data is just not something that can be used to say that the Grand was not way up this year. As mentioned above, if someone drove in to shoot one day last year, but stayed for a week this year, that equals more targets thrown and greater participation in the events. Still only one body though. You shouldn't use one set of data to make claims about something unrelated. That's all I'm saying.
     
  16. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Bill do you ever feel this way???
    grntitan_2009_2503226.jpg
     
  17. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Unique, individual shooter numbers are nice to know, but they don't tell the complete story. Event entries are indicative of how much participation there was.

    Both the ATA and IDNR revenue is based on per event entries, not individual entrants.

    And Bill, of the 2,109 shooters who were eligible for the $200k HOA, 1,610 played it, or 76.3%.
     
  18. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    ---------- 2010 2011 % increase

    single-- 1674 2109 25.99%

    hdcp-- 1804 2149 19.12%

    dbl---- 1365 1820 33.33%

    single 1843 2181 18.34%

    hdcp-- 1935 2276 17.62%

    dbl--- 1302 1725 32.49%

    hdcp-- 2012 2317 15.16%

    dbl--- 1466 1888 28.79%

    hdcp-- 1988 2275 14.44%

    total- 15389 18740 21.78%


    sorry for the poor formating

    Bill to me this looks like an increase especially when all the shoots across the country were down in paid entries.

    prelim grand week was almost exactly even so you have to conclude that it helped
     
  19. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    Phil,

    Thats what I was looking for and your right ...


    V-10,

    Why would only 2109 be eligible out of the 3474 ..? (3474-1610= 1864)

    I was having a problem with the RJS site while trying to get a total on the numbers to figure the difference in percentages ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  20. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    Why are only 2,109 eligible?

    Because that's the number of shooters who shot the Class Singles (Event 13) which was the first event in the HOA.

    The figure you are trying to use would include people who didn't even shoot during Grand Week.

    Like I said, of the 2,109 shooters who could enter the $200k Lewis, 1,610 of them did.
     
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