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machine gun ban

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by drh08, Apr 25, 2009.

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  1. drh08

    drh08 TS Member

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    Who knows the history of the machine gun ban and could help us out. I am wondering if the machine gun ban can give us any insight into what and how the assault weapons ban is going to go down.

    My only thought is machine guns were used in too many crimes and the police were simply out gunned, so the government banned machine guns. Certainly this has to be very close to what is happening to assault weapons and possibly to some extent hand guns. It might do everyone some good to read up on history in preparation for the future.
     
  2. perazzi_01

    perazzi_01 Member

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    You use to be able to buy machine guns in I think the SEARS and ROEBUCK catalogs years ago. Just an anecdote by the way.
     
  3. texas_shooter

    texas_shooter TS Member

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    you can still purchase class III weapons, at least in good ol' texas! :) i have several class III. takes the proper batf paperwork and more money.
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The Firearms Owners Protect Act of 1986 was passed to supposedly protect gunowners travelling through anti-gun states from harassment, gun seizures and criminal charges. The gun had to be in an area inaccessible to the driver. It could not be used in the banned state, but was "protected" while travelling through. At least that was the theory. People have been charged with gun crimes in states for driving through with guns anyway.<br>
    <br>
    When the bill got passed, after the pro-gun politicians went home, the anti-gun Demoncraps held ANOTHER vote - a secret vote since the pro-gun politicians were not informed of it - and added what they thought was a poison pill, the banning of the manufacture of all new transferable machineguns.<br>
    <br>
    Despite the protests and urging of the machinegun collectors community, the NRA turned their back on them, sided with the Fudds in charge, and recommended Reagan sign it. Which he did.<br>
    <br>
    The fallout of this backstabbing was swift. Many quit the NRA in protest, and many refused to join what was seen at the time as a very soft on gun rights organization. This is directly what helped the GOA and JPFO really pick up memberships. This also started an internal power struggle within the NRA. Eventually the NRA got turned around, but it took over a decade and a half. Even then, word is that some higher ups in the NRA were willing to trade renewing the 1994 AWB in exchange for gun manufacturer lawsuit protection. The word through the NRA grapevine is that there was some real backdoor wrangling done to kill this and power in the NRA shifted to the Ted Nugent side of the aisle.<br>
    <br>
    I state this not as a slam on the NRA, but simply as a history lesson, since the question was asked. <br>
    <br>
     
  5. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    The so-called "assault weapons" ban will probably go down as a combination of what happened in California and New Jersey.

    Because the real issue is firepower, not folding stocks and bayonet lugs, any real "ban" will follow the California lead and prohibit or regulate semi-auto guns capable of accepting removable magazines.

    Following the New Jersey lead, the "ban" will require all owners of assault weapons to get a special permit, and no new permits will be issued to private citizens.

    I also expect magazines capable of holding more than 5 rounds to become contraband. (hope they make an exception for the Ruger 10/22)

    Short of this, there will be a ban on all new "assault weapons" and it will become prohibitively expensive and difficult to transfer ones that are grandfatered, just like the machine gun regulation.

    New Jersey also prohibits semi auto shotguns with a magazine that holds greater than 6 shells. This is very confusing, because a magazine that holds six 2 3/4" shells could hold more than six 2" shells, even if they would not have enough force to cycle the action. Go figure.

    Hope they let me keep my home defense shotgun (1956 Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge with an 18 1/2" barrel). Note the high capacity magazine, the sophisitcated optics disguised as a brass bead and crammed into the volume of a BB at the front end of the barrel, and the space age polymer stock made up of billions and billions of cellulose fibers. If they really want to ban firepower capable of causing rack and ruin in a CQC situation, this would have to be on the list as well!

    Lou


    [​IMG]
     
  6. perazzi_01

    perazzi_01 Member

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    "Bushmaster1313"

    What you have pictured is the most effect anti-personel weapon ever designed , minus all the Hollywood crap add ons that others find cool looking.
     
  7. Guard Rail

    Guard Rail TS Member

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    Lou,

    Although I have had a class three weapon for over thirty years, that would be my choice also.

    BK
     
  8. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Perazi:

    Are you refering to the riot guns in general or the Model 37 in particular.

    My Model 37 handles like a dream, but I would expect the Remington 870 to have a lot of fans as well.

    Is there any consensus on the "best" riot gun.

    Lou
     
  9. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Bushmaster1313

    "Hope they let me keep my home defense shotgun (1956 Ithaca Model 37 12 gauge with an 18 1/2" barrel)."

    Why wouldn't they its not a semiauto!!!!!!!!!!!

    BTW how many shells will your model 12 hold with no plug in the magazine?

    Bob Lawless
     
  10. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Bob:

    My Model 37 holds four 2 3/4" shells in the magazine plus one in the chamber. 18 1/2" barrel measured with a dowel to a closed bolt face. Measured three times before bringing it back from my gunsmith!

    5 shells times 9 pellets equals 45 projectiles, each with almost as much force as a round from a 9mm small machine gun.

    Unless you have a 50 round drum magazine on a Tommy gun, I bet I can bring 45 projectiles to bear on target out of my Model 37 faster and with more accuracy than you can get 45 projectiles out of your Class III!

    My concern is that if they really want to ban firepower, My Model 37 would have to go as well.

    Lou
     
  11. perazzi_01

    perazzi_01 Member

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    No Lou , not in that its a model 37 but the configuration of barrel length and pump action 12 gauge also in the simplicity without the plastic and pistol grips and Hollywood bling you see on some self defense 12 gauges. Although the Ithica Model 37 would be my first choice.
     
  12. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Perazzi:

    Remington 870 is much easier to maintain, but the Ithaca is, for me, easier to bring to bear and lefty friendly (no, I do not mean those kinds of lefties!)

    Lou
     
  13. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Semi-auto and pump shotguns will become assault weapons, count on it.
     
  14. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Expect the pumps with 8 round magazines to be banned first

    Lou
     
  15. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    Firearms act of 1968 had lots of ramifications...one was the Illinois FOID card thing, other was the exclusion of lots of imports that didn't pass government safety tests. There was a short period of "amnesty" where you could register those machine guns, sawed offs and so on free and without penalty. Government wanted a handle on where they were. We picked up a couple of Thompsons during the amnesty and made 1000% a few years after. If we'd waited, we'd have had a factor of 10X more today....prices for full autos now start around 10K and go to the sky.
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    One important point about the bans and registration in Commiefornia is that it is estimated that more than 80% of the guns simply "disappeared". Their owners refused to comply with the law. When citizens practice civil disobedience to this extent, it means the law is not only unpopular, but is an abject failure. In fact, the law is worse than before it passed, because these guns are now all "off the books" and are in the realm of the black market. The government has lost any control of them whatsoever. The tighter the Commiefornia government grasps, the less power it actually winds up with.
     
  17. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Brian:

    It is easy to practice civil disobedience when the downside is a misdemeanor with no real world ramifications. Violating gun laws includes the risk of hard time, foreiture of the right to keep and bear arms, and explusion from certain professions. For me this is too high of a risk, and I go out of my way to obey.

    You may call me a whimp, but it is the choice I have made.

    Lou
     
  18. ccw1911

    ccw1911 Member

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    An interesting fact about the NFA of 1934 is that it is not a machine gun ban as many think it is a tax on certain firearms including full autos. It was a result of the gang violence thru the roaring 20's but at that time our govt didn't think the constitution gave them the power to ban any guns. Instead they came up with the plan to tax them by requiring a tax stamp be purchased for each firearm. They did not plan to sell any stamps effectively banning the full autos, but did end up issuing the stamps. It was the same strategy used to ban some drugs. How things have changed as I don't think our leaders today worry too much about the constitution.
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Lou, I am not advocating not registering, nor am I advocating you should register. I'm simply stating that some people have refused to, and in Commiefornia it is a significant amount. Enough that it renders registration useless. And that this is probably what we'll see on a national scale. As for you being a "wimp", I inferred no such title.
     
  20. Bushmaster1313

    Bushmaster1313 Well-Known Member

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    Brian in Oregon:

    You implied no such title and no offense taken.

    Rather, I myself feel wimpy and defensive for knowing that if push came to shove I would most likely allow my gun rights to be trampled in favor of other matters that I hold more dear.

    Such is the power of the tyrant and the benevolent dictator alike.

    Lou
     
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