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M12 --M12Y comparison

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Southpaw Sam, Mar 25, 2009.

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  1. Southpaw Sam

    Southpaw Sam Member

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    Any and all M12 experts--please list the significant differences to consider before I make a decision to purchase one or the other. Thanks.
     
  2. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    I've owned both. I prefer the Y-model because it seems to shoot higher which is more my style. They are both superb shotguns!!
     
  3. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    Model 12 purists will claim that the pre 64 guns with forged receivers are the best. Winchester claimed the Y model receiver (cast) was actually stronger.

    Regardless, a gun of either design in nice condition still commands a good price.

    Go for the one in the best condition. Shoots softer with 7/8 or 1oz loads.

    Enjoy....Gerald
     
  4. dave-320c

    dave-320c Well-Known Member

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    Sam:
    I have a Y model, last year made with special 12-1C engraving in 98/99%.
    Let me know if you are interested via email above.
    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  5. esoxhunter

    esoxhunter Well-Known Member

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    Sam: I have several pre-64 Model 12 trap guns. I have owned several "Y" Models. In my opinion, (and that's all it is); I prefer the pre-64. I personally feel the older Model 12 has a smoother action than the "Y" Model. If a nice "Y" model comes along, I would certainly not hesitate to purchase it if the price is right. Ed
     
  6. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    i have owned both. the y models seem to shoot higher than the pre64's that i have owned. the pre 64's are smoother to me, have a nicer feel to me. alot of model 12 old timers seem to think the y models are not in the same class as a pre 64. one interesting note, in the area that i live a very well respected gunsmith who was a model 12 collector once told me something that i could not believe. he said "in his opinion the y models were a better gun". all i can tell you, should you be lucky enough to find "the right shooting model 12", pre 64 or y model, you will enjoy a lifetime of great shooting. they are great guns.
    steve balistreri
     
  7. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    The only real difference is price . This pre-64 30 inch Trap made in 1961 and like new is for sale . E-MAIL me
     
  8. Urbans

    Urbans Member

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    I have a Model 12 2 pin duckbill Pigeon grade with a left handed Wenig custom set of wood with a kick-eze pad I would consider selling. E-mail me @ frei454@aol.com. Thanks Ed Freise
     
  9. claybrdr

    claybrdr Well-Known Member

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    I wish Winchester would have named the Y model the Model 13 or some such...That way I wouldn't get excited when someone has a Y model for sale and refers to it as a Model 12.
     
  10. Southpaw Sam

    Southpaw Sam Member

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    Thanks--everyone-- for all the information in, comparing both. I was led to believe at some time in the past, there were stamped parts added to the action of the Y12. Not sure where I heard that info, but no one, here, has mentioned that, so hopefully that is not true. Thanks, everyone, also for several leads.
    Lon/Sam
     
  11. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

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    The late Dean Johnson, who was as close to a Model 12 expert as you'd want to meet, said that the Y models had better barrels than the older models.

    And he looked at a lot of them.

    Hauxfan!
     
  12. wm rike

    wm rike Member

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    Years and years ago I read an article about Winchester's post-64 change to cast receivers. It said that the initial impetus was cost reduction, but they came to find out that the cast receivers were stronger and more dimensionally stable than the machined versions.

    I've not pulled apart a Y-model so I can't speak to the interior finish. I've never been overly impressed with the interior finish on the pre-64 guns, and I've picked up a lot that have pretty rough or stiff actions. That said, I might be willing to give the nod to those posters above who think the Ys are a little harder to work. I do know that most any pre-64 gun, with use or careful polishing, can become very smooth. As an aside, at the other end of the specturm, the Japanese Winchester 12s have by far the best finished parts (all cast and stamped) and have very smooth actions.

    Keeping the action clean and lubed helps bunches. A lot of the 12s, pre- and post-64, look pretty pasty and have a lot of garf in the action. That's easy to fix. Got a screwdriver?

    Bottom line is the pre-64s have more cache, but I wouldn't be afraid of any of them.
     
  13. JH

    JH Well-Known Member

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    The Model 12Y was a cost-cutting measure of the original Model 12.....repeat, a cost cutting measure.....meaning, it was not cost-effective to manufacture the Model 12 in the original manner....

    In my dictionary, cost cutting means CHEAPENED!
     
  14. Southpaw Sam

    Southpaw Sam Member

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    Yes, Bangalore,having started shooting for the first time in the late 60's, I heard the same story, and was told to stay away from this new and cheapened imitation of a M12. Years later, and input from seasoned M12 users on this forum, seem to make null & void, thoughts I had retained. Until this forum info, I was not sure of the real differences in the two. Again, I thank everyone for their input.
    Lon/Sam
     
  15. Mono3811

    Mono3811 Member

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    I think the Y model was introduced in 1972. I was in the retail gun business
    then and got one of the first in my area. As I remember, the finish was good,
    and the wood was at least as good as the last run of pre-64s. The bolt and
    follower were engine turned. The real objection among the purists was that
    they were manufactured in Japan.
     
  16. Gregg535

    Gregg535 Member

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    Mono3811,

    As for being built in Japan, you must be confusing them with the much later produced Browning subgauge versions?????
     
  17. Mono3811

    Mono3811 Member

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    Don't think so. Checked with the guy who bought it from me, and he said that
    it's marked "made in Japan" on the barrel and on the end label on the box.
    Cabela's in Michigan had one recently of about the same age which was advertised as made in Japan.
     
  18. Gregg535

    Gregg535 Member

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    I am fairly certain that you are talking about either the Browning build sub-gauge model or, one of the 20 gauge guns labeled Winchester (and in a box that said Winchester) that were built by Browning fairly recently ---they are much more recent then the "Y" guns--- since Browning and Winchester became together under the same parent company.

    By chance, I own one of the 12 gauge 30 inch trap "Y" model 12 guns with a serial number just over 2 million from 1974, which is in the exact configuration you described in your first post (engine turned bolt, etc) and that gun is marked "Made in New Haven, Conn). I have seen a great many other "Y" model 12 traps over the years and every one of them said that same thing.
     
  19. JH

    JH Well-Known Member

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    Sam....It is a free country (at least, it was until this last election) buy what you will...but I much rather shoot the "old school" Superposeds, X-1s, ASE 90s and pre-64 12s.....some like Citoris, X-2s, DT-10s and 12Y....

    By the way, the 12Y was made in the USA....the pathetic Browning Model 12 copy was made is Japan much later......

    By the way, if you have any pre or post war Pigeons laying around, I will happily trade you for a 12 Y......
     
  20. Southpaw Sam

    Southpaw Sam Member

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    No, no Pigeons of any kind around, nor a M12 trap, nor a new M12 hydro-coil I bought in the late 60's, nor the Browning Lightning, nor several other good -in their day- Remington TC's. However, with whatever time I have left to shoot, I plan to re-kindle the interest I had before, with several guns from the past. A M12 or two will be a start. Thanks--everyone for your input.
    Sam
     
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