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LOW COST SHELLS VS PREMIUM SHELLS

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 1oldtimer, Aug 3, 2011.

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  1. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    I shot handicap registered Sunday using Federal Top Gun 2-3/4 dr 7 1/2 from the 23 yd. line. I shoot a vintage BT-99 with a .028 constriction tube. With my reloads, same speed 7 1/2 magnum shot, I smoke quite a few targets. With the Top Gun ammo, I got some fair hits but no smoke. What makes the big difference? Do the cheaper shells have softer shot? Puzzled in Ohio. Clyde
     
  2. Hal1225

    Hal1225 Member

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    Now that you mention it, I haven't seen much smoke lately. Oh they break into alot of pieces but no smoke. Never picked up on it until now! I shoot both Walmart Winchester and Federals 1 1/8oz x 7 1/2 shot. I don't reload and don't shoot often. I think it's the target material or the geometry of them. I shoot full choke only so when they get hit right they should become invisible! Maybe I'm too blind to shoot the target close enough to get smoke.

    Harry
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Those shells use smokeless powder. HMB
     
  4. trapman99

    trapman99 TS Member

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    im not sure it really makes much difference, but i can tell you that when i go to the line i have more confidence(sp)? when using nitro 27 than any other shell i shoot. and i think my score goes up because i have more confidence in what im shooting plus with the rebates(if you ever get them)makes the "premiums" cost about the same.
     
  5. capulona

    capulona TS Member

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    Here's an in-depth report from a Shotgun World:

    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=222032&start=0

    He really did a lot of work on this:

    For those of you who might be interested in a comparison of these shells but haven't been following the "Remington Gun Club Question" tread on the Trap forum, I though I would post my findings here.

    Remington Gun Club vs STS vs Nitro 27

    After purchasing two boxes of each load, five shells were sacrificed to examine the internal components and the other 45 shells of each were shot at the patterning board to evaluate their performance potential.

    LOADS EVALUATED
    12ga Remington Gun Club Target load with 1 1/8-ounce of #7 ½ lead shot at a listed 1,200 fps.
    12ga Remington Premier STS Light Handicap load with 1 1/8-ounce of #7 ½ lead shot at 3 DE (1,200 fps).
    12ga Remington Premier Nitro 27 Handicap load with 1 1/8-ounce of #7 ½ lead shot at a listed 1,235 fps.

    INTERNAL COMPONENTS
    Hulls
    Gun Club / “One-Piece STS Hull”, lightly ribbed green hull, silver steel head.
    STS / “Premier STS Body”, smooth metallic-green hull, brass head.
    Nitro / “Premier Unibody “, smooth metallic-gold hull, brass head.

    Primers
    Gun Club / “Premier STS Primer Mix”, it looks like an R209P primer.
    STS / “#209 Primer”, it looks like an R209P primer.
    Nitro / “Premier R209P STS Primer”.

    Powders
    Gun Club / Medium-sized gray flakes (16.8 grains, + or - .45 grains).
    STS / Medium-sized gray flakes with green flakes (17.4 grains, + or - .15 grains).
    Nitro / “New Ball Powder”, fine ball powder (19.1 grains, + or - .15 grains).

    Wads
    Gun Club / “Power Piston” RXP style wad.
    STS / FIG8S wad.
    Nitro / TGT12S wad.

    Lead Shot
    Gun Club / “Hard Gun Club Shot”, #7 ½ ( 375 pellets / 485.5 grains).
    STS / “High Antimony Hard Lead Shot”, #7 ½ (408 pellets / 492.2 grains).
    Nitro / “High Antimony STS Magnum Shot”, #7 ½ (420 pellets / 503.1 grains).

    When I weighed out 492.2 grains of shot (1 1/8-ounce) and then counted the pellets to establish the “true” 1 1/8-ounce pellet count by weight, the Gun Club’s came in at 380 pellets/1 1/8-ounce (492.0 grains), the STS’s came in at 408 pellets/1 1/8-ounce (exactly 492.2 grains), and the Nitro’s had 411 pellets/1 1/8-ounce (491.8 grains). It would appear from the true pellet count that the pellets in the Gun Club’s are of a lower antimony content than the STS’s and Nitro’s. This would account for some of the lower pellet count in the Gun Club’s payload. The STS’s and Nitro’s must be very similar in antimony content since their true pellet count numbers were very close. Knowing that pellet size also influences pellet counts, I checked the diameter on 10 pellets from each load to get an average pellet size and all were within + or - .005" of the expected .095" diameter for #7 ½ lead shot.

    PATTERNING PERFORMANCE
    Of course, what matters most is how they perform so here are some pattern numbers from a 12-gauge Browning Citori w/ 28" Invector-Plus barrels and Briley flush chokes to allow for performance comparisons (patterns average of five, 30" post-shot scribed circle, yardage taped muzzle to target, and in-shell pellet count average of five).

    40 YARDS / LM
    Gun Club / 216 (58%)
    STS / 277 (68%)
    Nitro / 267 (64%)

    40 YARDS / M
    Gun Club / 236 (63%)
    STS / 293 (72%)
    Nitro / 302 (72%)

    40 YARDS / IM
    Gun Club / 260 (69%)
    STS / 295 (72%)
    Nitro / 307 (73%)

    40 YARDS / LF
    Gun Club / 263 (70%)
    STS / 313 (77%)
    Nitro / 309 (74%)

    40 YARDS / F
    Gun Club / 272 (73%)
    STS / 321 (79%)
    Nitro / 321 (76%)

    As far as the GCs are concened, they just could not keep up with either the STSs or the Nitros when it came to putting pellets in the pattern at 40 yards with any of my chokes. Heck, the GCs with the full choke could only get close to the LM choke performance of the STSs and Nitros. The GCs did however perform up to factory standards for the choke, i.e., + or - 5% for F / 70%, IM / 65%, M / 60%, etc.

    The STSs and Nitros were pretty much a dead heat, there just isn't enough difference between the STS and Nitro raw pattern numbers to worry about. Through the LM and LF chokes the STS load put a few more pellets in the patterns, through the M and IM chokes the Nitros put a few more pellets inside the pattern, and with the F choke they both had the exact same average pattern number.

    The STSs were a little more efficient than the Nitros since they did this with fewer in-shell pellets which resulted in generally higher pattern percentages. The LM, LF and F chokes all registered a little higher pattern percentage with the STSs than the Nitros, they both had the same pattern percentage with the M choke, and the Nitros were one percent better with the IM.

    So, unless you just like or want the Nitros gold hulls for reloading the STS load is providing the same level of patterning performance in my gun anyway.

    Well, there you have it. A straight-up apples-to-apples comparison of the three loads. Remember, I'm just the messenger so you can be the judge.

    Good luck.


    Read more: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=222032&start=0#ixzz1U00crcc8
     
  6. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    Capulona, Would it be about the same results with Fed & Winchester? From my hits I think it is. Clyde
     
  7. capulona

    capulona TS Member

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    Hello 1oldtimer, - I don't have much experience with Fed/Win as I'm just a beginner in trapshooting and these loads (Remington GC) in particular.

    I think you'd be a better judge when it comes to those.

    Cheers!
     
  8. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Yes, The cheaper shells have 3% antimony lead while the premium shells have 6% antimony. Yes, it makes a difference. The shot in premium shells should also run truer to size and roundness, while the economy's can have more mixed size shot and more out of round shot that will vary from lot to lot. But at 16 yards its hard to tell sometimes. Break=em all Jeff
     
  9. jbmi

    jbmi Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, I shot a 200 bird event a few weeks ago. Kokar 740 bore,34" IM, 1st 100 with new Gun Clubs 1 1/8oz #8's box said 1145 fps, birds broke into lots of little pieces, score 97,
    Second 100, STS 1 1/8 oz #8's, box said 1145 fps, most birds were smoke, just puff's , score 97.
    Scores were the same, but the STS gave me more impressive breaks.
    Next day I went back to my reloads, 1 1/8 oz of nice reclaimed shot in new GC hulls, Greendot powder and 1200 fps according to the book. Score 98.
    I don't know if puffs are worth $3 more a box or $5 more than my reloads..
     
  10. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Member

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    Don't forget the difference in targets. Some smoke black and some give off a slight orange color. Not all targets look the same regardless of how much shot you put on them.
     
  11. Pointer

    Pointer TS Member

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    Capulona;

    Impressive and detailed work..very cool Thank you!
     
  12. DeAdLy.90T

    DeAdLy.90T Member

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    At 16yards I cant see much of a advantage...get back to 27 or even 42yards for shoot offs, it makes a huge difference. I average 7 out of 10 back at 42yards with handicap loads. With a gun club or top gun, lucky to break 3-4 out of 10.
     
  13. Pointer

    Pointer TS Member

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    So ponder me this!

    Say we are loading with the 1 1/8 oz charge bar..it's space volume, and the size would depend on what the loading manuf considered the space volume of 1 1/8 oz. If we load two shells (one 3% antimony, and another 6%)Then one load would have less shot, and the other more?

    If the shot were exact size 7 1/2 would we not end up with the same number of pellets every time, but a change in weight?
     
  14. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    Same number of pellets, but the weight would be less for the higher antimony shot.
     
  15. Pointer

    Pointer TS Member

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    So if the maker of the charge bar set it for 1 1/8 @ 6% and you drop 3% shot you would end up with a load quite a bit above 492.2 gr...or no?
     
  16. Hill topper

    Hill topper Member

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    For most of us, the lower cost shells will do the job at singles and short yardage.

    When you get to the level of Leo, Ray, Harlon ect. they will tell you that the premium shells are the way to go.

    The pattern tests listed above tend to bear out what the big dogs know.

    ed.
     
  17. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    pointer, That is correct. You will need more volume (room) for a higher antimony lead then in chilled shot which is pure lead. The 3 % antimony is in the middle somewhere. Using of course the same size shot for all loads. The more antimony shot has in it the less it weights, so you need more pellets per oz., but the pellets weight less per pellet for the same size and thus will have less engergy at the same given speed and distance. Now you can better see its all a trade off of sorts. This is why they stop the antimony at 6% and not higher. Break-em all. Jeff
     
  18. Pointer

    Pointer TS Member

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    Guess I never thought about it. If your drop is set up for 6% 7 1/2 spot on and you drop 1 1/8 of # 9 (filling more space than 7 1/2) @ 3% antimony you could end up with a near 1 1/4 oz load.
     
  19. Hill topper

    Hill topper Member

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    Most people that reload are religious about checking their power charge wt. but don't give a thought to how much their charge bar is droping of shot.

    This was brought home to me when I went to an adjustable bar where you have to set both the powder and the shot.
    Untill then I hadn't thought much about the shot side of the bar.

    The higher antimony shot is lighter and will give you more pellets for a given weight. I now take advantage of the bonus pellets with the premium shot.

    I would guess that most reloader are droping less shot than the stated value on the bar or bushing would indicate. How much this matters it up to you.

    Hornady has bushings for 7 1/2 and 8 shot, while Mec to my knowledge does not.

    My .02 cents,

    ed.
     
  20. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    I won't tell you the low cost shells are as good as the premiums - because they aren't - but i did manage to run a 100x100 in singles with Top Gun shells recently and there was a whole lot of smoking going on - nothing was a maybe or chip only hit.

    Another guy on my squad was using 1 Oz Estates and he also ran a 100x100 with a ton of smoke and no weak hits.

    I think the cheap ammo is up the task of breaking targets (at least the ones we shot at) - so dang I guess I can't use that excuse anymore ....
     
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