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LOP Variances - Explanation sought

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by GrandpasArms, May 11, 2011.

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  1. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    Location:
    About 40 miles west of Chicago, IL
    Still confused about LOP.

    I have a field BPS, adult size, with a distance from trigger to butt pad of 14.25 inches. I also have a BPS trap gun that is identified as a “micro”. The distance from that trigger to the butt pad is 13.375 inches. I understand Browning used to call this a “youth” size. The difference between the two lengths is 0.875 inches.

    Givens
    ..distance from trigger finger to elbow = 15 inches
    ..distance from elbow to shoulder = 12 inches
    ..angle at elbow = 90degrees
    ..distance from trigger to back of butt pad = 14.25 inches or 13.375 inches

    How much of difference is there in angle at the elbow if a person uses a gun with a shorter distance from trigger to end butt pad? I did a rough calculation and see under 5% angle difference.While I understand the logic of a good fit, I fail to grasp the significance of such small differences. It seems that the average person would rarely notice a difference between guns with only ? inch difference.

    Can someone tell me where I’m wrong headed about this?
     
  2. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Well, first of all, the length of a shooter's arm has nothing to do with determining the correct length of pull (LOP) for him/her. It's the length of his/her neck that matters. Picture a shooter holding a mounted gun from his/her strong side (right for a right-hander) and imagine the right arm becoming longer and shorter. The elbow moves but shooter's head doesn't. But imagine the neck lengthening and shortening while the head stays on the comb and you'll see why it is important to LOP. As the neck lengthens, the shooter needs a longer stock and as it shortens, the opposite is true.

    Next, there is no hard-and-fast rule for LOP - in the end, it comes down to what feels best. But I have always found that starting with about an inch between the control hand's thumb and the shooter's nose is a good ballpark length. Some - like me - will like it a smidgen shorter than that while others will prefer more length. For that reason, I like to use the recoil pad adapters that are adjustable for length of pull. They afford the shooter the opportunity to dial in the right length for them for THAT gun (not ALL guns).

    You can't even establish a LOP for a shooter with a given brand of gun and say that is his/her LOP for a Remington, for example, because guns of the same brand will feel "right" with different lengths. I can tell you from owning both and having work done on both that the stocks on Krieghoff KS/KX-5s are very different than a K-80 stock. Likewise the 870 trap models. I have two 870TCs and had to have the stocks shortened to feel comfortable but an 870 Competition stock feels great to me in out-of-the-box length because the wrists of the two stocks are so different.

    I'm certainly not qualified to be a stock fitter but that's what I've learned over the course of a lot of trap guns.

    Ed
     
  3. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    What AveragEd said is very true, also your body build, short--stocky-- tall--thin--etc. make a big difference for instance I'm about 5'9"---150 lbs--long neck & arms, consequently I shoot about 15" to 15&1\2" stock so I DON'T get whacked in the nose. Anybody else tries to shoulder my gun says wow how can you hit anything??? I say I don't hit many but I don't get nose bleeds either. As per AveragEd gun fit is a very individual thing. Ross Puls
     
  4. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    If you are a stock crawler makes a difference too.
     
  5. Rastoff

    Rastoff Active Member

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    Ed gave us a great explanation.

    I would add that stance is also a player. A shooter that stands more edge on to the target will require a longer LOP than a shooter that stands more square to the target.
     
  6. GrandpasArms

    GrandpasArms Active Member

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    Thanks for the replies. This is the first time I have an understanding of this LOP/fit thing. Not an expert, but I have a good handle on what I need for me.

    Larry
     
  7. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    As written above, the correct LOP has several determinants. One of course, as Rastoff wrote, is how the shooter stands. Someone who shoots a shotgun like a rifle with the shoulders more aligned with the shooting direction, will need a longer stock than someone with a more correct trap shooting stance who stands facing targets more directly.

    The effect of the length of a shooter's neck on LOP does not matter - IF - (and only if) the stock's drop at the heel dimension allows the shooter to shoot with a normally erect/upright head and neck posture.

    If that is not the case the shooter will need to lower his head to put his cheek on the comb. Necks have length. When one is leaned forward to put the cheek on the comb, a longer stock is needed to prevent the nose being too close to the trigger-hand thumb with the risk of the two meeting, rather violently, during recoil.

    Shooters in different shooting disciplines often prefer different LOPs. Low gun disciplines like sporting clay's FITASC, often prefer slightly shorter LOPs as do very experienced shooters with solid gun mounts and good shooting forms.

    Guns with shorter LOPs are said to swing more easily. This is particularly true when shooters incorrectly arm-swing their guns rather than moving them using the preferred upper body rotation at the waist and hips like the turret on a tank.

    As an aside, changing the LOP a quarter-inch changes the distance between the nose and the second knuckle of the trigger-hand thumb close to an inch. It is weird, but true. (Keep that in mind if you have your gun's LOP changed.)

    Rollin
     
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