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LOP question ?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 635 G, Nov 23, 2009.

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  1. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    If the length of pull is close to 1/2" too long how does it affect your shooting? I have two identical guns. They both feel great. However; one of the guns LOP is 14" & the other is 14.5". Thw wood on the longer gun is one of a kind & I won't cut it.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  2. jhoward

    jhoward Member

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    Have a thinner pad mounted on the longer stock.

    It is my understanding that having the stock be too long will affect your shooting. Not only does it affect the way the gun swings, unless you have a truly parallel comb, it will also affect how your eye lines up over the rib.
     
  3. SevenMaryThree

    SevenMaryThree Member

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    "They both feel great."

    I think you answered your own question. All other things being equal, how do your scores swing when you change guns?

    The older I get, the more comfortable I am with longer stocks. My current guns are 14 1/2" to 15 3/8" inches.
     
  4. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    Measuring LOP from the bend in the trigger to the center of the butt pad doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the way the gun fits.

    Specifically, a Browning XT has a trigger shoe that can be adjusted over a range of 1/2 inch. That means that the gun can have a LOP of 13 7/8" with the trigger back and 14 3/8" with the trigger front and nothing of consequence will have changed; only the bend of my trigger finger will be different.

    The stock will be the same length, the distance from pistol grip to butt will be the same, the bend in my elbow will stay the same and the position of my eye relative to every other part of the gun will stay the same.

    Also note that every 1/8" you shorten the stock will move your nose 1/2" closer to your thumb.

    MK
     
  5. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    Unfortunately, there is no simple answer to your question. Given that you are talking about two different guns, the differences in LOP may, or may not, be of significance. You need to find what LOP is right for you, for each gun. For example, my skeet gun (a Remington 3200) has an LOP of 14 inches, which, for me, is just right, having determined this by experimenting with longer LOP and having a fitter check me out. In contrast, my trap gun (Beretta 687 JEG Combo) has an LOP of 14 3/8 inches, again having been determined by careful fitting. (Trap guns typically work better with a longer LOP than skeet) Each gun needs to be individually worked with to find what works best for you as every individual can differ. As a general rule, it is probably better to have a gun a little too long, as opposed to too short, as it is easier to shoot the longer LOP So, if both of these guns work well for you as they are and feel good, then the differences in LOP should not be considered an issue as that may simply be due to differences in stock shape, design, trigger placement, use of gun, etc which dictate the difference in LOP for comfort and correct stock placement for you.

    Jim R
     
  6. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    "Also note that every 1/8" you shorten the stock will move your nose 1/2" closer to your thumb."


    MK, I can't figure out in my pea brain how this could be true. Does this mean that for 1/8th I take off the butt of a given stock my nose grows by 3/8"?


    Guy Babin
     
  7. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    gdbabin,

    I didn't believe this myself until I tried it at a stockmaker's shop. I originally found the statement in Rollin Oswald's book Stock Fitting Secrets. I exchanged email with him about it and he admits that he hasn't figured out the math of it but that's how it seems to be. Here's the quotation from page 103:<blockquote>"Changing the LOP 1/2 inch will change the distance between the nose and the thumb (or glasses) <I>approximately</i> two inches in the same direction. The ratio is approximately 1:4. It is mysterious and to my knowledge has never been explained completely. It is quite accurate, however. Keeping that in mind could prevent shortening a stock too much when shortening is required."</blockquote>

    MK
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    A guess-- assuming the 4:1 ratio is correct, the shorter stock might promote rolling the head down and forward on the stock. After mounting the gun, the majority of shooters do roll their heads forward a bit.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. glenn mcleod

    glenn mcleod Member

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    I believe a shorter stocked gun will shoot higher than an identical gun with a longer stock. Move your head forward and you'll watch the bead rise. Glenn
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Glenn- Most have their comb either parallel or a little lower in the front than the back. If the comb is lower in the front, the gun will shoot lower as one moves their cheek forward on the stock.

    What you described is a comb that is higher in the front than the back. I suspect this would cause a bit of pain to the cheek when the gun was shot.

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    I see and understand. My brain most always defaults to linear for some reason, and I forget than many times reality is nonlinear. Just ask my wife, she'll tell ya!



    4:1 does seem like a large ratio even still--I'll go with it though as Rolland is the man and it looks like I need to re-read my copy of his book.


    Guy B.
     
  12. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    Seems like I remember a line in Rollin's book that says, "It's better to have the LOP a little too long than too short.". Maybe I dreamt it when I fell asleep reading. ;-)
     
  13. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    If I cut 1/2" from a 12" board, the board will end up being 2" too short?


    Can I go back and sue my math teachers?
     
  14. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <I>"Seems like I remember a line in Rollin's book that says, "It's better to have the LOP a little too long than too short."</I>

    Also page 103, a couple paragraphs above the one I cited.

    MK
     
  15. GunDr

    GunDr Well-Known Member

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    Too short, and you'll have a bloody nose.

    If you have a consistant gun mount, and firm shooting posture, there shouldn't be any reason to have your nose beyond and inch from your thumb. My feeling is the closer you can keep your hands to your body, the better control you'll have with the gun. An example would be holding a bag of shot...it's much easier with your arm bent at the elbow holding it close, than extanding it any further distance away.
     
  16. glenn mcleod

    glenn mcleod Member

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    Pat, What you say is correct IF the comb is lower at the front. With a parallel stock if you move your head futher forward you will see the front bead go up and the gun will shoot higher. Try it and you'll see what I mean. Glenn
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Glenn- My stock comb is parallel with the barrel. I just tried your suggestion and could see no difference in the bead alignment. It could be due to the way I try to mount my gun. I strive to bring the gun up to my face and never bring my face down to the gun.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    i never thought that lop was that important, until recently. a friend of mine purchased a new single barrel trap gun, and he had terrible scores. as i was watching him shoot, i noticed that the stock appeared to be a shade short. i put a 1/8 spacer on the gun and he started hitting targets with absolute authority. a friend of mine Dick Bennett wrote a book " trapshooting is a game of opposites". in that book he mentions stock fit and mentions shortening stocks and wierd things can happen. this sport of ours is a great sport, but with all the small changes we make in equipment one thing i have learned. each gun, each adjustment, is different for each shooter. what works for one person, may not work for the other. one thing that i have learned the hard way over the past 40 years is this. once you start hitting targets really well, stop making adjustments. once my gun is set, i wont change recoil pads, change beads, change lop, etc. remember, most of us keep gunsmiths in business. we all seem to want alot of useless adjustments, in search of getting one extra target.
    steve balistreri
     
  19. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    The position of the grip.. and your hand can also affect the relationship of LOP..and control... It's more than 1 thing that makes it all work.. The different grips on a Perazzi PFS stock clearly show me.. with no change other than grip.. scores can vastly change..
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    YODA100's answer is as close as it gets for fitting a trapgun stock. There's way too many variables in peoples body types to make hard and fast rule calculations for a proper fit.

    1. Distance from a comfortable comb mount to your eye pupil and the shape of cheekbone plays a very important part. High cheekbones, rounder and low cheekbones mixed with face width all play a part. Length of arms, thickness of chests and shape, neck length mixed with shoulder pocket form all play into shotgun consistency.

    2. LOP is important for varying reasons also. First being, continual recoil hammering on bunched shoulder muscles take a drastic toll the more you shoot in a day.

    Hold your shotgun with the trigger hand far back on the grip away from the trigger. Mount it as you normally would in preparing to make a shot. As you slide your trigger hand and finger forward to make trigger contact, observe whether or not your bunching shoulder muscles push the gun forward? If so, that stock is a tad long and you'll pay for that somewhere down the line as recoil hammers those tight muscles! This applies to recoil reducing stocks also.

    For just those few reasons alone and there's more, no one can say, this is the measurements used to fit a trap stock to the masses!! It's impossible!!

    Hap
     
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