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long range powder?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Stoeger Joe, Jan 10, 2010.

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  1. Stoeger Joe

    Stoeger Joe TS Member

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    Im only seeing 19.5 grains for Red Dot charted max were others show higher grains. Is another powder better for longer range with higher grains and does it have a better shot pattern?

    Joe
     
  2. Fisher

    Fisher Member

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    You might want to check out a powder called longshot. A lot of shooters that attend at the local, "meat", shoots use it. Not uncommon to use in the high 20-something-grains of it.
     
  3. Stoeger Joe

    Stoeger Joe TS Member

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    Thanks Fisher

    Ill check it out. If I do well from the line and end up in a shoot off I dont have much luck. It might be me just choking under pressure! I would like to rule out my shells and reload a respectable shoot off shell. Then I would be sure if I just need more practice from further yardage.
     
  4. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    I've had excellent success with Unique and the DR Versalite wad.. Thne 12SO3 is a excellent performer as well..
     
  5. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Joe, Red Dot is a good 1150 fps load, its border line at 1200 fps and can cause high chamber pressures in some loads. Green Dot, is a better powder at 1200-1250 fps load. Longshot is a better powder at 1250 fps and faster yet. HOpe this helps you out, and Good Luck and Break-em all. Jeff
     
  6. Lobo

    Lobo TS Member

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    Longshot has 1440 foot 1 1/4 ounce load on their bottle. One of those for the clubhouse door shoot off loads.
     
  7. Stoeger Joe

    Stoeger Joe TS Member

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    Thanks Jeff

    Yep, Ive been blowing my pattern all to hell with heavy load of the red dot. Not to mention safety and effects on my gun,Im going to look for some Longshot powder next time I buy supplies. I appreciat the help.

    Joe
     
  8. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Joe:

    This may be stating the obvious but Red Dot is a fast burning powder and it reaches its maximum safe pressure at around 19-20 grains. Years ago, when we had a hard cardboard over powder wad and felt spacer wads, the Red Dot loads were somewhat higher. However, with the advent of plastic one piece wad columns and tapered plastic hulls, pressure builds real fast with Red Dot. This is OK as we now get more light and standard loads per pound of powder.

    As to “back up” loads and “way back” loads, here are a few comments.

    You do not have to load 1400 plus fps to break targets from “the clubhouse door”, “parking lot”, “back fence” or wherever your club’s maximum distance is called. What you do have to do is get your pattern on the bird. Too much recoil can really mess with your head, swing and everything else.

    Some of the Kentucky “games” shooters that I know use a variety of loads and powders, based on their shooting styles.

    For some, 1 1/8 oz of magnum 6’s at 1250 fps is their “back pocket” load. This load has plenty of reach and moderate recoil. If you check out the Alliant data for Green Dot and Unique, you should be able to find something to fit your needs.

    Other shooters, myself included, prefer 1 ¼ oz. of larger shot (7, 6, 5 or even 4) at 1220-1250 fps. This was the velocity of the old factory Pigeon Load and it has won many a match. Here recoil is still manageable, especially if you don’t shoot one every 30 seconds. I like to load 25 grains of Alliant Herco in a STS hull with a Remington 209P primer and SP12 wad and 1 ¼ oz of Lawrence magnum 7’s. This is a published load.

    Some long range shooters I know use published data to push 1 ¼ oz. loads to 1275 or 1330 fps using Alliant Herco or Blue Dot.

    A few shooters I know like to shoot 1 3/8 to 1 ½ oz of larger shot (i.e., 4, 5, or 6) using published loads of Blue Dot. With larger shot, which holds its velocity better than smaller shot, you don’t need to load super fast. I believe that 1 ½ oz of 5’s launched at 1150 fps will arrive at 80 yards faster than 1 ¼ oz of 7 1/2’s launched at 1330 fps. Some targets we break are probably 100 yards or more from the shooter.

    One or two “old boys” I know do not follow published data and load 2 oz. of large shot with a very light load of Alliant Herco. Sometimes, you almost do not hear these loads go off but all of a sudden the target breaks just before it hits the ground. Do not try this as a too heavy load of shot can blow up a gun. These "old boys" have spent years of trial and error and I am not sure if they still have all of their fingers left.

    To sum things up:

    Follow published data and weigh your charges.

    Try shooting a new Remington NP 27 1 1/8 oz. of 7 ½’s as a backup load until you are shooting more than 35 yards behind the house. This shell has broken many a long range target for me.

    If you need more range, either buy new or load up some “pigeon loads” of 11/4 oz. of size 6 shot at 1220 -1250 fps. This will take you back another 10 – 15 yards to 50 yards behind the house.

    If you can manage the recoil and these loads are not working for you, buy or load up some 11/4 oz 1330 fps loads of size 4, 5 or 6 shot.

    If you still feel “the need for speed”, look up some 1400 fps loads in the published data. Be prepared for recoil.


    I once won a “5 long” from 60 yards behind the house with the original Federal Extra Lite shell that had 1 1/8 oz of 71/2’s at around 1120 fps. It took a while for the shot to get there and the targets barely broke but it put money in my pocket that day.

    Do not overlook the Remington NP 27 load in 71/2 shot. It works.

    The above is just my 2 cents worth. I am sure that you will get lots of recommendations.

    Ed Ward
     
  9. Stoeger Joe

    Stoeger Joe TS Member

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    Thank you Ed

    That was some good info, I will use your advice. Hope to meet you on the line some day.

    Joe
     
  10. wireguy

    wireguy TS Member

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    What are you defining as LONG RANGE? If you are talking about a shoot off at 27 or fewer yards you darn sure don't need Longshot.
     
  11. Stoeger Joe

    Stoeger Joe TS Member

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    Our shootoffs would generally start about 10 or more yards behind the 27 yard line depending on the first shooters choice. After shooting there any remaining shooters having to shoot off the shoot off, so to speak, would move further back or left or right, again as to the first shooters choice. the Ski is the limit. So I would say "Long range" being from 37-50+ yards behind the trap house. Any advice?

    Thanks, Joe
     
  12. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Stoger, Ed Ward gave you some excellent advice to follow. It appears that he actually has experience behind his recommendations to you. The next step after that of his post would be to get into buffering shot. At this stage it doesn't sound as though your ready to cross into this realm and in all actuality, it may not be needed for your shooting. If however you do decide to go this route, Ballistic Products and Precision reloading both have info and supplies. Buffer builds unguessable pressures so it requires strict adherence to data.

    PS. I hate Longshot! My prefference in the slow burners is 4756.
     
  13. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    I know everyone is different and has their own "pet" loads, but I find that I can break targets more consistantly at longer range with a 1300fps 1 1/8 oz load of 6's.

    I generally use Univeral Clays for this, but I think that Unique or Herco would give similar performance. I don't know about 800X as I have no experience with it.

    I've never tried a buffered load, as I can't find a need. I can break them at 80yrds + with what I use and a .035 choke.

    I have often wondered if Longshot could be loaded down in the 28 grains area with a 1 1/8 oz load. I can't find any data supporting this though.

    ss
     
  14. TEXASZEPHYR

    TEXASZEPHYR Member

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    Another powder not mentioned that works well is winchester superfield. I use 1 & 1/8 of 7 1/2, 6, or 5 shot w great results. I load to about 1350 ft and reaches as far as you want to go, 5's or 6's on the 4th or 5th shot on an annie, use a flat shooting gun with the dropping targets that far out.

    Bob
     
  15. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Anybody use and pattern REX-III for their back-fence loads? Wayne
     
  16. Bisi

    Bisi TS Member

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    Well I guess I'll add my pet load. From the 27 back to about the 40 I use the factory Nitro 27 Sporting Clay shell. Beyond that I shoot 1-1/4 ounce of 6s, Winchester 209 primer,, WAA12F114 wad, and 33 grains of HS-6 powder. HS-6 is the old Winchester 540 powder. Man that is one bird crunching load!!!
     
  17. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Not to burst anybodies bubble but look at this comparasion.

    Federal Gold Medal Hull 1 1/4oz load of shot w AA12F114 wad 34.4 Longshot 1440fps w/9,200 psi

    Federal Gold Medal Hull 1 1/4oz load of shot WAA12R wad 32 Grs of 4756
    1325fps w/8,900 psi.

    I load AA HS Hull Windjammer wad 1 1/6th oz of #6s 33.2 Grs Longshot 1475fps andw/ 9,600psi.

    Win AA HS Hull 1 1/4 oz shot Rem SP-12 wad 31.5 Longshot w/9,200psi
    and a speed of 1385

    Which is faster than the 4756 load in Federal Gold Medal and less pressue.


    The latter are my PET Loads w/Longshot this powder was designed by Hodgdon
    for Annie's, Shoot Offs Etc.

    If you don't like the latter just put big shot in your basic trapload like #5s

    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot

    The pattern will not blow w/any of these loads
     
  18. tiptoncotrap

    tiptoncotrap Member

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    It has come to my attention as i've traveled these bumpy roads of life.That there are many who think they know it all,and have become an embarrasment to those of us who do!
     
  19. winchesterm12

    winchesterm12 TS Member

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    Like DR Longshot said just loads some 6's in your normal trap load and shoot it.If you do the calculations on the lead change the difference between 1200 and 1330 is barely noticable but the recoil sure is. Where we shoot games it not unusual to end up 65-70 yards from the house and I shoot 1 1/8 oz of 6's @ 1255fps and can hang with the guys that are shooting magnums just fine and after a game or 2 I can still keep my eyes open when I pull the trigger, alot of them can't after 15-20 of their super loads
     
  20. Stoeger Joe

    Stoeger Joe TS Member

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    Wow,

    Just like to thank everyone who posted on this thread. Im pretty green on the trap line, its actually been a while since Ive went. One thing I learned for sure is trap shooters in general are a breed of there own. While shooting locally I could not believe how helpful everyone was. Now since I discovered this forum, Ive come to realize its not just trap shooters in my area.

    Thanks for the help,
    Joe Hirsch
     
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