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LONG CHOKES NECESSARY?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Bueno, Mar 25, 2013.

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  1. Bueno

    Bueno Member

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    Had an illuminating talk the other day, regarding chokes, with a well known and respected gunsmith and
    the question was related to barrel weight, and titanium chokes.
    His learned self said that short or long chokes, the performance or pattern is the same. Longer lengths do not improve pattern density or performance.
    I remember when chokes where short, and then long chokes came in as better, and now extended chokes,
    titanium and aluminum chokes coated with ceramic.
    Briley charges $95 for a titanium choke. Imagine six chokes would cost you as much as a new shotgun.
    Do you guys agree that re the length of the chokes, longer is not necessarily better?
     
  2. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Primary reason for extended chokes is easy changing without tools, handy for sporting shooters.
     
  3. Bueno

    Bueno Member

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    Joe: That does not answer my question:
    Do longer chokes provide a more consistent pattern than shorter ones? Yes or no.
     
  4. Unknown1

    Unknown1 Well-Known Member

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    <blockquote><I>"His learned self said that short or long chokes, the performance or pattern is the same."</I></blockquote>Curious...if that's the case, how does that explain the long tapered sections of fixed choke barrels. A short choke could be swaged in just as easily as the long ones.

    Keller
     
  5. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Every gun is different, if you got a gun with a 740 bore, extended forcing cones areal tight choke is like shooting your self in the foot--anything under 23 yds--modified or Lm will do the job as long as the shell speed is 1185 or higher---my gun vaporizes targets --no smoke--they disappear, with 1 oz of 71/2 @ 1290
    yes I use a Briley LM extended choke

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  6. lboh

    lboh Member

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    wow, nice attitude.....
     
  7. Martinpicker

    Martinpicker Active Member

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    Sir, I don't think, (IMHO) that extended chokes inherently throw a better pattern than flush chokes. I use them because I use a GunBuddy barrel rest pad and if I screw up and hit concrete, I would rather get a new choke tube than try to repaira damaged barel! Martinpicker
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Bueno, I'll ask again so you don't have to.

    Has anyone actually personally tested long and short chokes of the same restriction from the same manufacturer so they could answer this question? If so, did the two lengths perform differently, in what way, and by how much?

    The "by how much" is the most important part of the question, of course, since tiny differences probably won't show up on the score sheet very often.

    Neil
     
  9. Bueno

    Bueno Member

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    Neil:
    To answer your question is YES. The person did actually test long and short chokes and found NO appreciable difference in the patterns. I believe him, but in order to be doubly sure, I wanted more opinions.
    The more and diverse opinions, the more scientific the results will be.
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    . . . Not if they are just opinions, Bueno. One real test is better than countless opinions which aren't worth much of anything, and adding more untested opinions does not make the result "more scientific."

    Did the gunsmith say how he tested the chokes, how many shots he took, how he analyzed the results?

    Neil
     
  11. Bueno

    Bueno Member

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    Neil:
    Few shots at a paper target with identical shells from the same box.
    Counting pellets in each rings in the circular pattern.
    Sounds pretty accurate to me.
    According to him the longer chokes fever, was just a marketing ploy by mfg's that wanted more sales.
    Wanted to hear from persons that have actually done more and different testing.
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Sounds fine to me too, Bueno. That's one vote for no difference; I hope more readers here will post their own data. Thanks for the information.

    Neil
     
  13. YOTESLAYER

    YOTESLAYER Member

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    They look WAY cooler, I also like the idea of dinging the gun on the ground, nver really thought about that one. My mind thinks that longer chokes are better and who am I to argue?
     
  14. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Extended tubes are definitely better!

    ...at keeping me from knicking up the muzzle of my shotgun like a knucklehead.

    -Gary :p
     
  15. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    I use long/extended.

    Leo uses factory short.

    Huuuummmmm.
     
  16. TinMan88

    TinMan88 TS Member

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    Who said that the entire length (of the longer choke) was included in the converging angle?
     
  17. EuroJoe

    EuroJoe TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Mikey: I've got some of each in different guns. I have had sucess with both. I think it would take a lot of work to make a positive determination, and then, it would only be true for that one load,barrel combination. Frankly , I don't think it's worth the effort. Remember, a pattern sheet is a two dimenional represention of a three dimensional object;i.e. shot string. I suspect that shot string has as much to do with "smoke balls" as anything.
    The ceramic, titanium, etc. are for weight, not performance. Factory screw choke bbls, tend to be heavier than fixed choke bbls.
     
  18. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    I have previously read a very intensive test that showed that the parallel section of the choke had to fully contain the shot charge, and longer than that made no difference.

    My personal experience is that short chokes like original Browning Invectors do not work very well in tight constrictions like full or IM. I have no scientific data to back up this conclusion. I did notice much better breaks on an original short invector BT99 with an extended Briley choke, which I used till it went away with the gun.

    HM
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I'm disappointed that no one (reading this) has done any serious testing they would like to share except Bueno's gunsmith and he only did a "few shots" and who knows what that means? I think the consensus I've gathered from threads here and way more on the friendliest site where they are far more sure of themselves in general, is that there is no difference. All these threads and still everyone is flying pretty-much blind?

    Let's start to correct that. Shooting AA light 8's (Lot number ending CH12), my Optima-bore 391 Beretta did show a difference between flush and extended Teague choke tubes in both Modified (0.020 restriction relative to the bore) and X-Full (0.040 restriction relative to the bore.)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And the effect was so strong that it went a long way in erasing the difference between Modified and X-full choking.

    [​IMG]

    It's too early to say how general this result is. To be more sure we will have to look at the results from Briley tubes later. The Teagues, being all taper and no parallel, may not be typical of chokes in general.

    In the Teague case, the flush and extended choke tubes did not perform the same; extended was better, at least for long handicap.

    In his second post Bueno asked "Do longer chokes provide a more consistent pattern than shorter ones? Yes or no."

    In this test, no. The two choke-lengths were about equally consistent in their pattern percentages in 30-inch circles at 40 yards.

    Neil
     
  20. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

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    I don't have any specific data...but have been told that factory flush chokes in a Browning may not pattern as consistently as Browning's after market chokes. The reason I was given is that the gun manufacturer, Miroku in this case, also manufactures the chokes delivered in the gun from the factory...(they got the contract because they are cheaper).

    Aftermarket chokes such as the Browning Diana Grade, Diamond Grade, etc, are made by Briley for Browning with the Browning label, and are said to be more consistent in regard to quality control in manufacturing...thereby affecting patterning, etc.

    If this is so...one set of factory chokes might be fine while another might not pattern as consistently as the higher end chokes made by Briley. This also might confuse the data in comparison of the differing length of chokes...since length may not be the reason for difference in performance...rather the consistency of quality control, or machining procedures from different manufacturers.

    Briley of course concurs...but what else would they say...
     
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