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Long Browning firing pins. Internet Myth or Fact?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Beretta687EELL, Dec 14, 2008.

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  1. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    A friend of mine made his own (he is a machinist) and they are longer. There was a thread on this a month or two ago. You might find it on a thread search. Bill Malcolm
     
  2. Beretta687EELL

    Beretta687EELL Well-Known Member

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    Here is a link to the thread I mentioned. Bill Malcolm
     
  3. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    The part number 81334157 is the one in Brownells latest catalog. I do not believe there is a factory made "longer" pin.
     
  4. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Are you using Noblesport primers in the load for the bottom barrel by chance?
     
  5. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    The correct number is (BRAVO) B1334157. This firing pin has been available for some time now.

    Using the Wolff Extra Power spring should cure your problem. Make sure there is no flash in the firing pin channel. I see this every once in a while, and check every firearm I service.

    Make sure your gun is completely closed or gun will not fire. Close the gun and let it whang shut. Do not "help" the top lever close. In a worst case, the top lever could be interfering with the lower pin. If you can, drop the stock, and with the gun closed and cocked, verify that lower pin will freely slide in firing pin channel.

    If you feel any resistance other than return spring, remove barrel and set top lever to closed position. Again check lower pin for freedom of movement. If pin is now free, make sure you allow top lever to snap shut with barrels installed. Any foreign matter in gun or under ejector may cause functioning issues.

    If this does not allow free firing pin movement, top lever needs to come out and be retimed. This is for a 'smith, or Browning.

    What primers are you using? I generally recommend Cheddite and Rio.

    What type of press are you using, or are you shooting factory ammo?
     
  6. pufftarget

    pufftarget Active Member

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    I was having trouble with my Citori 425 trap also. I found that the problem eventually was that the outer support for the bottom barrel axle broke away and allowed the hammer to "float". It was repaired by Art's and is working fine. However, I have had poor performance from such as Chiddite primers. I now use either Winchester or Federal primers. I was also concerned that AA's fired several times were developing a thin rim and exaggerating head space. I switched to Remington, primarily gun clubs. Among these changes the problem seems to have been resolved. The next thing I would have tried was setting the shoulder back on the firing pin slightly and extending the notch on the firing pin for the firing pin retainer pin.
    As for a smaller dent in a failure to fire primer as opposed to one in a fired shell, it is my contention that when a shell is fired the primer sets itself back against the extended firing pin and creares the deeper crater seen on a fired shell
    Hope this helps.
     
  7. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Puff, you are correct about the dent. Pressure does move the metal back around the pin. If you have a misfire with a deep dent, do not mess with the pin length or you will pierce primers.

    One thing I have not noticed on these misfire threads is the cratering of firing pins. This is evidenced by an irregular star shaped (usually) depression on the end of the pin.

    I have had this twice. Firing pin ends need to be perfectly hemmispherical.

    HM
     
  8. snglfoot

    snglfoot Member

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    Well all,,,you have seen me on here with this problem several times,,,my new XT is going back to Browning. Failure to fire with new "longer" firing pin (Brownings). Norman
     
  9. FLIP

    FLIP Member

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    well I to have had this problem, talked to ruth at browning that pin B1334157 was changed about a year and a half ago,yesterday shooting with a friend with the same gun my misfires would work in his lower barrel, mine is a MX in the ser# dated 2003 his is a MR 2007, this said I just sent a order in today fore the new pins and main springs so when I test mine I will let you all know, the proof was sooting with the newer gun,did not order the WOLF springs yet $10.99 plus $10.00 shipping was to high for this cheep hull vulture.
     
  10. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Try Brownell's. $10 is pretty steep for shipping.
     
  11. Customstox

    Customstox Member

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    I had the same problem on my XS Skeet gun. There was a big discussion on Shotgunworld about it and cure suggested. It sounds odd but if you think about it, it makes sense. Browning does not have a longer pin, I talked with a number of folks there and they assured me they are all the same. The lower pin does not even meet the Browning specs for protrusion. What you have to do is extend the BACK of the pin. The slot for the keeper pin does not contact the keeper pin when the firing pin is flush with the action. With a longer pin at the back it will go further. I have sold my gun but if memory serves me, mine was extended .015". It worked great after that. I sent it to a friend who has a tig welder and sent him a spare so he could match the angled striking surface. BTW cutting a loop off the return spring will not help.

    I will find a link to the discusson on SW and post it here. There were a lot of folks who doubted it could be done by adding onto the back, me included, but it does work.
     
  12. FLIP

    FLIP Member

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    Customstox,
    If you add length to the back did it make it longer?? Skeetshooter!!
    Yes checked Brownell's will order from them if I have to,Thanks Coach
     
  13. Customstox

    Customstox Member

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    flip, yes it does. The protrusion of the pin is not dependant on the front shape of the pin or any stop other than the back of the reciver. You can lengthen it on the business end also but the other works too. When the hammer is fully down the pin will protrude further because of the length you have added. If you take your action off you can push the firing pins beyond the back of the receiver because the retainer pin slot has lot of room in it and will not act as a stop. The effective stop is the back of the receiver and the primer.
     
  14. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    This seems to a problem with newer XTs. I have a UltraXT production 2000. I admit I let this gun get dirty this year. I mean dirty. did not miss a beat. I did replace my springs with JP custom spring kit.
     
  15. FLIP

    FLIP Member

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    Customstox
    have you seen the new firing pin from browning, that was made in the last year? when I talked to browning they said it has been changed it may be longer,when I get mine in I will check the lenght.
     
  16. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    Some folks seem to be overlooking SAAMI Specs. Ammunition meeting that spec is what the gun is designed to fire. If you believe your gun has a problem, get in touch with Browning first. I believe Citori is a reliable shotgun.

    I would not just look at the gun statically with the hammer down. Consider what happens when the hammer is driven forward by a powerful spring and whacks that pin - the pin will now go as far forward as allowed by the retainer pin.

    I don't know what kind of shells or reloading components folks with problem are having. My citori is happy with my reloads, that is STS shells with Rem primers or Win AAs with Win primers. The gun is not always happy with promo loads in the bottom barrel.

    I believe the problem is related to primer hardness and primer pocket depth and not firing pin length. I believe hard primers are driven slightly forward instead of going bang. That is why there is only a slight dimple in the unfired shell. The brass primers are nice and soft and chances are that they will go bang before being driven forward.

    I believe extending the business end of a firing pin increases the chance of a pierced primer and hot gas going places it should not. I believe extending the hammer side of the pin will place undue stress on the retaining pin and once that goes you might be peening the backside of the receiver.
     
  17. ljutic73

    ljutic73 Well-Known Member

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    My Superposed (circa 1979) had a problem with firing reloads in the bottom bbl when I used CCI or Winchester or any other "flat" primer. I started ising Federal 209's exclusively and the problem went away...and the gun has never failed to fire with a factory round...
     
  18. FLIP

    FLIP Member

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    Gary I am using fio primers,but they work fine in a rem hull, misfires then I use win hull.Browning said that the chedite primers are a problem with handness.
     
  19. Customstox

    Customstox Member

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    Gary, try an experiment regarding the retainer pin. Remove the stock and place a fired shell in the bottom barrel and push the pin forward and see how far it goes. It will not go past the back of the receiver because the primer is restricing it's movement and does so during firing. Take the shell out and push it and it will go further but evidently it does not during firing or it would be evident in the fired case. It can go further if there is an empty chamber but that does not tell us anything. With a longer back it can go further and still be flush at the back. And with a longer back it meets Brownings protrusions specs but it does not with a standard one.

    My XS skeet got the point of absolutely refusing to fire the bottom barrel and the obvious culprit was the hammer spring. You could feel the difference between the new and the old. After replacing it, I still had the light dent, FTF on the bottom barrel. Extended the pin and it went away. I did not sell the gun because of this. I still really liked it, I just got a chance to get a gun I had wanted for some time.
     
  20. Customstox

    Customstox Member

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    Here is a link to the thread I mentioned on Shotgun World, all seven pages of it. You might notice that I went from a non believer to being convinced thru the process. One of the posters measured his firing pin protrusion and compared it to Brownings min/max and got this:

    "These measurements are my pins.

    Upper pin protrusion with hammer down is .047"
    Lower pin protrusion with hammer down is .037"

    Upper pin protrusion against retaining pin is .052"
    Lower pin protrusion against retaining pin is .066"

    I machined my lower pin that I had welded to protrude .050"
    Browning spec is .047"
    MAXIMUM is .070" "

    I got the same measurements when I measured my lower pin and it was .010 below Brownings spec.

    http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/vie...stdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=slot&start=0
     
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