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Lock time vs crispness

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 635 G, Dec 19, 2009.

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  1. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    According to the proponents of high end guns,I keeping the term crispness. Is there a difference between crispness & lock time. I don't really believe the triggers of a Seitz, Alfermann, Ljutic,Bowen, Mach 1 & Infinity are that much different that a person without lab equipmenty could really tell the differfence.,if all the adjustments were made to be as close to each other as possible.

    Phil Berkowitz
     
  2. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    I can deal with a little take-up. I can't deal with shooting a flintlock. Shoot one of the higher end guns and then a 391 and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

    ss
     
  3. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    I sold a nice MX-15 because the trigger was not fast enough . After shooting a Silver Seitz for five years the release trigger of the Perazzi was just way slow . Now before you say just have it sped up (you can,t) . The leaf spring only goes so fast and the only thing you can do to make it faster is lighten the hammer (and break some).

    Don,t shoot the Seitz-Alferman-Bowen for any lenght of time unless that will be the gun (THE GUN) . Any one can shoot a slow trigger if you don,t know the difference .
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Crispness and lock time are two totally different things. In order to fully understand these terms you have know the meaning of the following items. Sear, hammer, hammer spring, sear engagement, and hammer notch.

    Crispness is dependant upon the trigger sear and hammer notch engagement surfaces being square to each other and the mating surfaces being polished. By reducing the amount of sear engagement the trigger will become crisp(no creep).

    Lock time takes place when the cocked hammer is released by pulling the trigger. When the sear moves out of the hammer notch and allows the hammer to fall lock time begins. It ends when the hammer strikes the firing pin and the gun fires. HMB
     
  5. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    In addition to eliminating the creep, springs also effect the feeling of crispness.
     
  6. Sky Buster

    Sky Buster Sky Buster TS Supporters

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    Any gun that utilizes a falling hammer, (Perazzi, Browning, Kolar,Krieghoff etc.
    is going to have a slower lock time (ignition)that a gun that utilizes a
    striker. Silver Seitz, Infinity, 3200 and other use this system. Crispness
    is related to the mating of the parts, the degree of polish of the parts
    and how they are sprung. You can have a very crisp trigger but still have slow
    lock time.
     
  7. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    hmb- I agree with you, but based on comments made on other threads, not everyone agrees with us.

    Pat Ireland
     
  8. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    He must be confusing fast lock time of the 3200 with inline strikers. If I recall the Ljutic Dynakick when I made a new firing pin for someone had a inline striker.
     
  9. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    We are right Pat. Those other boys don't have a clue. HMB
     
  10. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    The speed of the trigger is not as important as its consistency, be it fast or slow.
     
  11. Chichay

    Chichay TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Crispness gives an IMPRESSION of fast lock time, but they are not the same. HMB's got it right.

    Chichay
     
  12. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Sky Buster

    Why is an in line striker inherently faster lock time?

    jim brown
     
  13. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    Jim Brown A hammer travels in a arch the head of the hammer may move 1 inch or more . The inline travels less straight into the primer maybe less then 1/4 inch
     
  14. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    It eliminates hammer travel from the equation. The firing pin is spring loaded and travels a short distance to the primer. Similar to the setup in a bolt action rifle. HMB
     
  15. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Alf

    Why would the hammer need to travel farther than the striker if they were both the same mass propelled by the same force?

    jim brown
     
  16. $$90-T$$

    $$90-T$$ Member

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  17. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    JIM you really need to think about it . The hammer is going in a half circle the inline Straight .

    What takes longer run around a barrel or jump over it ??
     
  18. jim brown

    jim brown Well-Known Member

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    Alf

    Actually I have never seen a hammer travel on a 180 degree arc. The arc and travel it is usually a very short segment of a circle.

    Which is faster, to run around a barrel or crawl under it?

    jim brown
     
  19. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Jim, think of a Sharps rifle with the side hammer, it has to fall 1 inch (because I just measured mine) to contact the firing pin which in turn has to move some to contact the primer. My 700 Remington bolt firing pin falls 3/8" to contact the primer, and that is a inline. The shotguns they speak of have a inline spring loaded firing pin and no hammer.
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jim Brown- You are correct, in theory. The force hitting the primer is weight X speed and the primer does not know it the force is generated by the weight moving in an arc or a straight line. But, it is much simpler to put a heavy spring behind a weight that will travel in a straight line. There are no vector forces involved as there is in a rotating hammer.

    Pat Ireland
     
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