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Load data for WW Super Target Paper hulls

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Ramshot, Oct 8, 2010.

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  1. Ramshot

    Ramshot TS Member

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    Bought over a 1000 WW Super Target paper hulls off an old timer that has given up trapshooting. Just wondering if anyone had some reloading reciepes for this type of hull they wouldn't mind sharing. Also any kind of precautions,techniques for loading the ww paper hull. They are all once fired and I think a unique find! Thanks. Darrell
     
  2. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Years ago I was given a few thousand of these same once fired hulls. I will try and find my original reloading recipe and post it. These were great shells, but be careful, as I was also warned not to reload them more than one time. I did not listen, and I was on my third time of reloading this same hull shooting skeet. After I shot, a friend said to check my barrel as it did not sound right. Sure enough the base wad was in my barrel. You should have no problem reloading them one time, than suggest discard them.
    Steve Balistreri
     
  3. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    I loaded them with Red Dot just like Federal papers, i.e. one bushing up from my AA loads.

    You'll need a shorter wad too, a red AA wad (AA12r?) or it's clone.

    Don't expect many loads. They don't seem to have as much wax as the Federal papers, so their crimp goes to much sooner. It has a high paper basewad and if debris from the basewad blocks, or partially blocks, the flash-hole you'll get a "boomer".

    If you use a MEC 650, Grabber, or 9000, you'll probably want to readjust the powder drop tube.
     
  4. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Ramshot:

    I have two old loading manuals with limited data for Winchester paper hulls. The first is a 1989 Winchester manual. The second is from Hercules (now Alliant) dated 1970. The powders are 452AA, Red Dot, and Green Dot.

    If any of that is of interest, drop me a pm with an email or snail mail address. I'd be happy to share what I got.

    sissy
     
  5. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    Years ago i was given 3 shopping bags full of those hulls.

    I loaded them with 18.5 grains of Red Dot and Win red wads ... they have a very high base wad ... shot them and left them ... only good for one time reloads.
     
  6. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Darrell.... Do yourself, and the shooters around you, a favor and toss those hulls out. They are way too old to even try to reload. Those old Winchester papers really dry out over time and just aren't worth taking any chances with. Today's Green Dot, Red Dot, etc. is not the same formulation as in years past and may pose an unforseen problem with these hulls. There are far too many once fired modern hulls available for reloading to risk bad loads, migrating base wads, confetti flying all over when fired, etc. The effort to reload them will not justify the results... Just my opinion.... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  7. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    These shells were popular in the 70's because they were soft shooting and inexpensive. Nobody reloaded them because of the soft paper hull and the basewad. What Dan Thome said with an exclamation point!
     
  8. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    I have shot and reloaded Winchester Super Target aka Winchester Super Trap, Western Auto, Winchester Super Field (high base), Indian brand and a couple of other private label brands sold through Sears and Monkey Wards that don't come to mind.

    These were the softest shooting best patterning trap shells when produced. I have several thousand hulls which I still load on occasion, many have been fired three or more times. The biggest issue with these hulls is the hull base which has a tendency to crumble and block the primer hole when deprimed. This blockage causes miss and or hang fires. The remendy to prevent these failures is Texans long ago discountinued primer,sizer,with heating element. This press was designed expressly to reconstitute the fiber base in Winchesters paper hulls and others of simular construction by heating the hull base.

    I originaly loaded these hulls with Winchester recipes of 21 grs. of #452AA powder with WAA12R red wad for 1145 fps and 22.5 grs for 1200 fps. Both loads used Winchester 209 primers. Winchester discontinued WW452AA long ago I now load these hulls with the same components except the powder has changed to 18.5 Red Dot and 19.5 Red Dot. Also book recipes.

    Don't throw these hulls away, they make a great reload for those who have the right equipment load them. Someone will pay you for these.


    Surfer
     
  9. Trapshooter

    Trapshooter Well-Known Member

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    The Winchester paper was the softest shooting shell. I used to reload them in the 60's on my Dad's Mec press that had an heating iron on it. I used 18.5 red dot, short red winchester wad, winchester primer, 1 1/8 shot. What a sweet load. I got about 3 boxes of these once fired hulls a couple years back. I will reload some this winter.
    Todd
     
  10. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Guys trust me when I say, you are playing Russian roulette if you reload these hulls more than 1 time. I learned my lesson on the 3rd reload.
    Steve Balistreri
     
  11. Bill Hom

    Bill Hom TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I too have shot cases of these shells. I thought that they shot soft but, didn't hold a candle to the Federal papers. In those days,I loaded this case with 18.0gr. Hercules red dot, win 209 primer and AA red wad. This case is soft and dry {not much wax} No matter what I did the crimp was crappy. About ten years ago I gave several thousand cases away. I am still loading Federal papers {the only paper case worth loading} Like Trap2 said, not worth taking a chance with. much safer loading Wal Mart Federals, Top Guns or Gun Clubs. Bill Hom
     
  12. Dingelfutz

    Dingelfutz TS Member

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    As a factory load, the WW Super Targets were among the best. Many of the best shooters ot their time used these shells to excellent effect.

    As a reloading propostion, WWSTs were not so good. Their paper tubes tended to be "soft" and they were prone to splits, even with their first firing. Good crimps were a "sometimes thing", too. In my experience, WWST base wads were no worse than those of Federal paper hulls, but that is damning with faint praise. As Bill Horn states, WWST cases tended not to be waterproofed as well as Federal paper cases and about as well (or, badly) as the contemporary green/blue Remington/Peters paper cases. (R/P papers were very similar to WWSTs; wonderful factory loads and pretty ordinary reloads.)

    I would think very seriously about reloading and shooting these cases with today's components. In fact, I most likely would not do it. If it were me, I would try to find a deserving Cowboy Action shooter to give them to so that he could load them with black powder.
     
  13. George Steffes

    George Steffes TS Member

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    i still have some of those ww red wads for paper shells
     
  14. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Those red wads are great if also have some Remington All-Americans or earlier hulls looking for a wad.
     
  15. Old Doc

    Old Doc Member

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    I have loaded the old super target hull and it will give you grief because of the under powder paper cup. It has a bad habit of migrating and covering the flash hole of the new primer. Doesn't work very well. D Winter
     
  16. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    I still have on old Mec set up just for those hulls. It has an Alpha numeric charge bar. We used Red Dot or one of the Winchester powders and the WAA12R wads. Before that we used cardboard and fiber wads. They had a tendency to lose the basewad in a few loadings. I loaded them once or twice and they were history. When the plastic hulls made some advancements, they were the way to go. The Winchester compression formed and the Remington RXPs convinced me that paper was history. The Federal papers convinced me that was partly incorrect.

    I have some old data for these hulls, but I would recommend that you not load them. I have seen paper hulls deteriorate and degrade over time. They may look good, but they may not be as strong as they once were. I have a bunch that are almost a half century old. They won't get loaded.
     
  17. Dingelfutz

    Dingelfutz TS Member

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    George, I would hang on to your "red wads". They can be used to make some pretty respectable 1 1/2 ounce lead shot loads.
     
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