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Ljutic Rifle

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by rick979, Dec 6, 2009.

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  1. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    WOW......way too good looking for the government. NICE RIFLE!!
     
  2. cubancigar2000

    cubancigar2000 Well-Known Member

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    Al Ljutic is a genious plain & simple
     
  3. bill1949

    bill1949 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting the pictures. I've never seen a Ljutic rifle before...Bill
     
  4. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    That looks a lot like a sporting issue to me. I read a long time ago in American Shotgunner about Ljutic first making rifles instead of shotguns and even had a rifle submitted a rifle to the government for testing. (Thread corrected) Al was scheduled to compete in the Olympics in the rifle competition just as war broke out and the Olympics were cancelled.

    His patent in 1939 for a gas bleed system was adopted by Winchester and incorporated in the Model 100 (per story in Spotgun Sports). I have one that is almost pristine, made in the late 50's in 308. The gun was also made in 243 Winchester and 284 Winchester. The Model 100 had a remarkable reputation for almost never malfunctioning.

    Al and his father were making rifles in the 1940 and had also made their "Star" stocks with inlaid ivory stars in the stocks. I have a copy of the Ljutic story in Shotgun Magazine printed in Febuary 2007. The story about his competition in the military prototype appeared in American Shotgunner in the early 80's or late 70's.
     
  5. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    wow- I would like to shoot it myself

    regards from Iowa and thanks for sharing

    Gene
     
  6. Jim R

    Jim R Ljutic Nut TS Supporters

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    No more IM's please, The gun is not for sale
     
  7. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    The M1 was adopted into the U.S. military in 1936 and had been in the works since the 20's... In my research of the Garand and the search to find it, I can't say that I've ever seen the name "Ljutic" mentioned in any of it's list of competitors during the government testing sessions.

    However, I did find a report from the Aberdeen Testing Grounds from 1944 stating how "Mr. Ljutic" brought his rifle in to simply demonstrate it's operation. During which the gun experienced 5 failures to feed, 1 failure to extract and 1 failure of the bolt to remain open after last round in a 100 round testing session. The gun also was not subjected to the 2 proof rounds required at the time as the inventor (Mr. Ljutic) said it was made of an inferior grade of steel and was not heat treated correctly.

    You can see the report here

    I saw your claim that it rivaled the Garand and just didn't believe it...

    Josh
     
  8. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Josh - how did you get such a report?

    Interesting how they have a procedure for everything but gave some flexibility because this was just a demonstration.

    It says the round was 30 M2 -- what were the specs on that - does anyone know? bullet weight and pressue?

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  9. Ohio Bob

    Ohio Bob Member

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    I have a Ljutic sale flyer from the early 80's that shows the "Space Rifle" and the "Space Pistol" that came in many different calibers

    OB
     
  10. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Josh,

    Thanks for the great read.

    Is the .30 cal M2 the same as the 30 carbine?

    ss
     
  11. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Gene, Wasn't the M2 the standard cartridge?
     
  12. davidjayuden

    davidjayuden Well-Known Member

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    If I'm not mistaken the .30 M2 is standard issue 30-06 ammo, the type still used in the M1 Garand matches.
    David Uden
    Omaha
     
  13. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    After a quick google search, the 30 cal m2 is indeed the 30/06.

    ss
     
  14. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    I have to ask. If the gun I said IF the gun was for sale what kind of price would be put on it? Also how many were made?
     
  15. Big Heap

    Big Heap TS Member

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    Part of Al's pitch when selling a gun has always been that when he is gone, all his guns will be collector's items.

    So far, he has outlived most of his customers. Hope he continues to do so.
     
  16. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    M2 was the standard I think but what were the specs? was that the 168 grain bullet and psi?

    Gene
     
  17. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    Jolly,

    The article I read was from American Trapshooter some 20 years ago. Maybe I had a few mis-statements, but the story said the government did look at the Ljutic rifle and said it had some things going for it, but was not going to drop the M1 Garrand. I know the M1 had been in the works for a number of years, but I have anohter article on the Garrand was adopted formally by the US in 1936.
     
  18. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Gene, there are 3 types of 30 M2 ammunition. Ball 152 gr. armor piercing 168 gr. and the tracer.
     
  19. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Thanks toolmaker

    Rick Barker- that is the difference between original research and some author with pure speculation ( or your interpretation of the author) The document speaks for itself- now were there other documents? were there other tests? doubt it- look at the date of this one- most M1s had been produced by this date-

    That isnt to say that just being able to produce a prototype wasnt an amazing thing- it was

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  20. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    GN7777777..... I know not all gun authors know what they are writing about. I stated in the beginning, I was going from memory, something I read a long time ago. The article I read stated Al Ljutic offered his design as an alternative to the M1, but the Military rejected it. The article also stated Al Ljutic offered his gun for tests, after adaption of M1. But the article said it was offered arount 1939, not 1944. Jollytrapshooter had info that proved this wrong. If the author was wrong, not my fault. Just telling you what I read, but not offering it as gospel. I will take responsibility for my mistakes, but not others.
     
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