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Lindenwood University

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by txnlegacy, Apr 20, 2008.

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  1. txnlegacy

    txnlegacy TS Member

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    Please pray that these shooters are all okay & those that were not involved get to keep their shooting scholarships.
     
  2. txnlegacy

    txnlegacy TS Member

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    Oops, forgot to include the story link

    http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=144520
     
  3. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    I'm hoping the stupid kids who were drinking lose their scholarships, don't ever get to shoot for their school again; and that they didn't ruin it for all the other kids at the other schools - especially sporting clays champion and international trap shooter Derrick Mein.
     
  4. Kent

    Kent TS Member

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    My niece is the assistant girls soccer coach and a full time employee in the admissions office. I was talking to her a while back about how the school had grown in the last few years. She told me their chancellor had taken over and started to run the school as a business and it has taken off. She said all her team is on a scholarship but because the tuition is so high giving everyone a partial tuition break means that the school just breaks even. The one thing she said that really interested me is that “NO” professor is tenured. One year contracts only.

    So a few bad apples might spoil the barrel for the rest.
     
  5. canada

    canada Member

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    Someone screwed up, bottom line. The above comments are a little harsh... These are young men/ladies, who just won a college championship, celebrating. I'm sure dickgtax and jwemrw have never had a beer before, right?

    The kid made a mistake, but does that make him a drunk? does that mean he should never shoot? a little harsh, wouldn't you say? Give the coaches the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they didn't know the kid was drinking?

    Coming from a university student, if everyone who drank didn't get to be on a sports team, or have a scholarship... well, there wouldn't be many to pick from.
     
  6. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    Canada. He drove into a house! That's not just a beer or two. I stand by what I said and I'm sure jwemrw does too.
     
  7. canada

    canada Member

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    i'm not saying what he did was right. i'm just saying he isn't the the only person who has ever driven a vehicle drunk before, and i'm saying that just because he did doesn't make him the scum of the earth that you suggest he is.

    people make mistakes. he didn't kill anyone. he didn't drive into a childs bedroom and kill them.

    alright this is way beside the point, but if what you said did happen to me, i'm not sure i would forgive the driver, but just what sort of hell to pay are you talking about? what can you do? whatever stupid thing you choose to do isn't gonna reverse what happened. just a thought.

    anyways congrats to lindenwood for winning the shoot.
     
  8. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    jwemrw, the article stated the shooting coaches were fired.
     
  9. chessney

    chessney TS Member

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    If the coaches were on the bus then there is no saving the coaches. Alot of adults choose to look the other way when it comes to celebrating victorys. I've wittnesed this very same situation when I was involved in college sports...Ziggy
     
  10. richrob

    richrob TS Member

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    Seems to me its another case of a team being punished for the actions of one of its members.

    It does not say if the person was over 21. Nothing wrong with a person of age having a few drinks, just dont get behind the wheel.

    -Rich
     
  11. Dickgshot

    Dickgshot Well-Known Member

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    If you're on a college athletic team you're not 21.
     
  12. jevoliva

    jevoliva Member

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    ummm.. no?

    Most kids start college at 18, correct?

    Therefore:

    Freshman: 18
    Sophomore: 19
    Junior: 20
    Senior: 21

    Most of my class turned 21 during their Junior year. Since ACUIs are at the end of the school year, it would be possible for 1/2 of the team to be 21, given each class has an equal number of shooters.

    For our school corp, you must be 5 before August 1 to enter the class. Therefore, if you were born on August 2nd, you would be 6 by the time you entered Kindergarden. This child would enter college at age 19 and bump everything up a year.
     
  13. Justin L.

    Justin L. Member

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    The numbers jevolvia gave are assuming you graduate in 4 years, which doesn't happen too often in college anymore, either. I'm in over 21-college student category, as well!
     
  14. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    Lindenwood is a private university which I am sure has rules against students dinking and doing drugs. They have a well known trap team. My daughter had considered going to school there for their trap team. As a father of an almost 21 year old college student and sorority girl, I am always concerend about college drinking. It is usually in excess and the students are really sloppy drunks. This had nothing to do with shooting... the same could have happended to the rugby team. If they had stayed on the bus the same punishment would have applied. The university took appropriate actions!! Remember if you have designated drivers -- you have designated drunks! Fred
     
  15. dynapro

    dynapro TS Member

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    Drunk driving doesn't matter if you are 18 or 21 or 30 or 50. Drunk is drunk. It's against the law, it is a felony. It is one of the worst and most dangerous activities imaginable. The swift, certain and harsh punishment was a correct and necessary action. You have only begun to see the repercussions from this disaster.

    The deal was that one Lindenwood coach was a chapperone on the bus. The second was following behind in a van. Obviously the adult supervision was nonexistant or negligent, meaning he/they knew and chose to ignore.

    As somebody mentioned, the likelihood of a lawsuit are 110%. A multi-million dollar settlement due to the actions of the coach which means, due to the actions of an AGENT of the College. This is what the Shooting Team brought down on the heads of this little University here.

    How will that sit with the Board of Directors??? When they start writing settlement checks to lawyers and team members and victims...

    The parents of the punk that got expelled are going to be the first to sue. Little Johnny has now lost his chances for a degree and livelihood because a coach winked and smiled as he smuggled a quart of Spiced Rum on board the school bus..... .....

    Then, along will come everybody else suing for damages, losses, pain and suffering, defamation of character.

    At home, the impairments were obvious. It was late, everyone was tired, one drunk student tried to drive home, fell asleep at the wheel and drove right into a house. He got expelled. Everyone else either participated or was implicated. The two coaches are fired. This really gives shooting a black eye if not a death knoll. People expect this crap from football teams, but SHOOTING, GUNS!!!! Guns and drinking? No way, not ever, NEVER!!!

    Shooting is only marginally condoned as an Inter-collegiate activity. Most students, faculty and parents think it this activity is on par with recreational sex as a competitive sport. (colleges are overwhelmingly liberal) - especially Lindenwood.

    The really sad part is that Lindenwood was only weeks away from final approval and groundbreaking construction of one of the premier shooting facilities in the World! They were getting two International bunkers, International and American skeet, 5 stand and ATA trap. A multi-million dollar facility that was expected to host National and World collegiate events into the future.

    The chances that this compound will be delayed or cancelled are absolutely certain now.

    With that in mind, go ahead and condone once more what these coaches and students did with alcohol on the cusp of the greatest moments in their schools history of shooting.
     
  16. primed

    primed Well-Known Member

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    Wow. A lot of stone casting going on here. I guess some are just holier than thou (or me). Or perhaps they know all the details.

    Kids do stupid things. ALL kids. "A problem without a solution ceases to be a problem and becomes a fact."

    There, I just got over it. Why don't some of you?

    Love and peace.

    Bob
     
  17. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    We live in a society where someone (usually a bunch of some ones) attempts to rationalize every misdeed. Whether an unkind act, a rule infraction, or a legal issue – major or minor, someone always seems to say, “its ok, because…”

    The ‘someone’ is often a parent, friend, coach, or peer. Defense attorneys and a select few busybodies including Reverend Jackson, are professional bad behavior rationalizers. “It’s ok because” are the words they mumble before some lame excuse is offered as to why the offender shouldn’t be held accountable for his or her misbehavior.

    Drunk driving isn’t ok. Hitting a house while driving impaired, isn’t ok. It isn’t ok no matter what somebody mumbles after the “it’s ok because…” preface.

    I’m guessing Lindenwood has rules concerning the behavior of its coaches and student athletes. I would further guess those rules include potential consequences for breaking the rules. Missouri certainly has laws applicable to the situation whether the individual was student or not.

    Lindenwood should enforce its rules. The local prosecutor should enforce the applicable laws. When all is said and done, the parties involved should be held accountable with APPROPRIATE consequences after all the facts and circumstances have been considered. Appropriate, by definition, means the punishment fits the crime.

    In the context of this sad situation, firing the coaches, terminating scholarships and/or expelling the students are the most severe penalties available. As such they are the situational equivalents of the death penalty. Maybe they are the appropriate remedies, maybe not. I’m glad the hyperventilating posters above don’t get to make the decision. I’m happy it isn’t my responsibility either.

    Sissy

    PS to jwemrw:

    If you were the homeowner, nothing would prevent you from filing suit against the student(s), their parents, the coach(es), the bus company, and Lindenwood, et. al. However, based on the information made public so far, there is no reason to think your “very best lawyer” would be likely to get you an award much larger than a delux version of actual physical damages plus some nuisance/inconvenience money. In all likelihood, the parties and/or their insurance companies will offer a settlement along those lines whether you have a lawyer or not.

    Under the typical contingency fee arrangement, your lawyer would pocket 1/3 of the gross settlement. You’d get what’s left of the other 2/3 after YOU
    pay all the expenses.
     
  18. Johntheshooter

    Johntheshooter TS Member

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    Not to poke fingers at anyone but dynapro some and most of your facts are not 100% correct. First of all, so far no one has filed for any lawsuits and no one is intending on filing any. Second, the "punk" as you refered to him made a mistake, everyone makes them. However, as you stated he was expelled, BUT will be able to attend the University next semester and if he chooses not to can attend many other colleges in the United States. Just because you are kicked out of one doesn't mean you cant continue your education somewhere else.
    You stated above, ""Little Johnny has now lost his chances for a degree and livelihood because a coach winked and smiled as he smuggled a quart of Spiced Rum on board the school bus"". Where are you getting this? First of all, the head coach was driving behind in a bus, and maybe had no idea of the actions of the team. Second, if in fact it was a quart of spiced rum or a quart of anything else you can come up with, you don't think that a kid could pass a shooting bag with some alcohol by a nonsuspecting coach. My opinion is that it could have easily taken place.

    So yes, this incident isn't a good thing for the team or the University. However don't start stating facts that you just came up with on your own. These kids are good kids, everyone for the most part knows this. A few kids made a mistake, thats all that it was, no one was hurt, and thats all that matters. The team will most likely start up again next semester with a new coach and probably a few new rules, and thats all that we can hope for.
     
  19. richrob

    richrob TS Member

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    To add to an earlier point, most college kids turn 21 while in the junior year. Also, graduate students are eligible for the team. I do now know if Lindenwood University has graduate programs.

    All in all I stand by my statement of punishing the whole for the actions of few. I feel for the kids not involved and hope they are not too deeply affected by the mistakes of a few college KIDS. -Rich
     
  20. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    This is an unfortunate incident. This is certainly not the place to pass judgment. It would appear as if the University has taken what it believes is appropriate action and I believe the local Police are involved with the investigation.

    I would hope that no other shooter becomes involved in a similar accident. Especially the large number of shooters who leave a club late, after a Calcutta and some drinks. I freely admit that I went to College. I did drink and I had a little more luck then the Lindenwood shooter had.

    Pat Ireland
     
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