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Lightest Recoil 1200fps

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Lugerville, Feb 9, 2010.

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  1. Lugerville

    Lugerville TS Member

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    Gang, Who makes the lightest or softest recoil 1 1/8 1200 fps shell?-tanx.
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    The one that goes the slowest. Sometimes it will be a particular lot number of Brand A, sometimes a particular lot number of brand B, Or C or D. You get the idea.

    Same goes for the hardest kicking, but there it's the fastest ones.

    Neil
     
  3. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Neil has oversimplified things - for a change.

    The shell with the lightest wad and the least amount of powder.

    You will not able to tell the difference, but there will be an infinitesimal one.

    Don Verna
     
  4. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Don, you don't think there's more differences is wad-weight and powder-weight between brands than there is lot-to-lot differences in speed, do you?

    Neil
     
  5. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    All of them if everything is equal. If one is softer than the other it's because of reduced payload or reduced speed.

    But 8's are lighter than 7 1/2's!

    ss
     
  6. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    Neil,

    Of course there are.

    But all else being equal, (same amount of shot and same weight of wad) a load that uses 18 gr of powder "A" to deliver 1200 FPS will recoil less than a load than one that uses 20 grains of powder "B" to achieve 1200 fps - Agreed?

    And if shot load and powder weights used are identical, but one wad weighs 5 gr more, the load with the heavier wad will theoretically recoil more.

    I used the word "infinitesimal" but there may be a better one.

    Just pulling your chain.

    It is snowing and miserable and I am stuck at work when I could be doing something constructive like loading my secret low recoil 16 yd and doubles shells.

    Don

    PS Lugerville, if you want lower recoil, drop down to 1145 FPS. If you are shooting longer yardage, use 7 1/2's to retain more energy. You will be surprised at how effective they are and there is a real difference in recoil.
     
  7. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    If you are concerned about 1200fps and 1 /8 oz recoil (a so called heavy trap load), drop down to 1145 fps (the light trap load) or a 1100-1120 fps (the extra light trap load).

    To me, the 1145 fps load will do anything a 1200 fps load will do with somewhat reduced recoil.

    Once you have shot a couple of flats of light trap loads, you may never never go back to heavy trap loads.

    1200fp and 1 1/8 oz = 1200fps and 1 1/8oz.

    I always thought that Federal Papers had a reduced recoil sensation because the paper would compress whereas plastic does not. However, I remember some 1200 fps Federal Papers that had noticeable more recoil. They probably had a little more powder in them and were producing velocity over 1200 fps.

    Shoot the light or extra light load and you IMO will really like them.

    Ed Ward
     
  8. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

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    I've found PB powder to be the "softest" shooting. Lower pressure than most although a little pricy. Load up some different loads and try them. Dave T.
     
  9. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Don, I thought a heavier gun would recoil less than the lighter one? Once the powder charge is ignited and consumed on it's trip down the barrel behind the wads base, why would it recoil more?

    I know it couldn't be measured being such a small difference hence the question. 1200 FPS is the same thing, no? Could there be any difference in a soft pliable wad and a very stiff wad weighing the same? I can't see or understand why the weight of the powder charge plays into the recoil factor if both have the same end result. I can certainly see how the weight of wads effect recoil through added mass but not the consumed powder weight.

    Hap
     
  10. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Hap,

    Burned gases are part of the ejecta weight, so they factor in to the recoil formula.

    Powder doesn't "go away" it just changes form. The mass is still there.

    There is debate among some, and confusion, with respect to what velocity you assign them in the formula.

    In simplest terms, all things equal, a shell that has more powder weight will recoil more. Albeit just slightly more.

    This is noticeable in rifles.

    e.g. Assuming equal rifles in all respects, a .308 with a 150 grain bullet going 2900 fps using 47 grains of Varget will recoil less than a 300 WinMag with a 150 grain bullet going 2900 fps using 57 grains of Varget.
     
  11. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    "Powder doesn't "go away" it just changes form. The mass is still there."

    I go back to my heavy versus lighter gun thought, as small as that difference may be. Isn't that saying a load of Red-Dot won't "sound" as loud as one of Green-Dot if we're speaking of gas velocities?

    Hap
     
  12. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Darned if I know Hap.

    But you are correct when you say the recoil when shooting a heavy gun is less than the recoil when shooting a light gun. That's a fact.
     
  13. mx2005

    mx2005 TS Member

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    School Teacher I agree, Lugerville I was a faster velocity shooter for long time and the Lite 7.5 STS will break'em all the way back and trust me then some its a lot of a mind game people think bigger is always better but it is not that at all, shoot a few flats of Lite 7.5 from you're HC yardage and get you timing and you will pick it up it will work. Pat.
     
  14. TNCoach

    TNCoach Member

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    I believe the "Who makes" means that you're interested in purchasing instead of reloading soI think you should focus your attention on a paper shell since 1 1/8 1200 in both Winchester Heavy and Remington Light Handicap are not light shells.

    You'll probably get a lot of votes for federal papers, but is there any particular reason you're looking at this configuration?

    TNCoach
     
  15. pheasantmaster

    pheasantmaster Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I believe the body/mind reacts in such a manner that physics and velocity (same realm) cannot explain perceived recoil. Now if we actually new that brand X,Y, and J all were the exact same velocity then maybe. But manufacturers don't all load the same as Neil stated and as such a particular brand and velocity to me will seem to recoil less than anothers of same designation. I believe in recent times that would be Fed. Estate cartridges as they don't actually have 1.125 oz's of shot from disclosure by Bowen I believe in threads here at ts.com. Also here again in what Neil eludes to is a fact that even though brand X says 1200 fps. they may actually be running 1225 fps t or maybe the flip, 1160 fps. Subject to change at any lot!

    Only sure way to know what your getting is roll_em yourself...
     
  16. Lugerville

    Lugerville TS Member

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    Thanks all. VERY good info, and here is some more explination. My son is participating in the winter jackrabbits, and he shoots his 16's with 2 3/4 dram Estates (1145fps) he does well with them so he winds up on the 24 or 25 for the second round. He has trouble with the 1145'ers back there so we have been trying some of the bigger loads. I was hoping you guys could point me to what you felt would be best. Thank you for trying.
     
  17. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    If your son is doing well at 16 yards with the light load...then they will work just as well at 24/25 yards....the problem is that he needs more practice at the longer yardage.;...NOT heavier ammo!

    Swing and lead at long yardage is different from what it is at 16 yds!
     
  18. tuscarora 99

    tuscarora 99 TS Member

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    Swing and lead is not that much different than 16's if you increase the speed to 1200 or more. I reload, so i like 20.8 gr of greendot, a windjammer wad, cheddite primer, 1 1/8th of 8's. Breaks them to the 27
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    To illustrate my earlier post - that lot-to-lot variability makes it impossible to name any brand as "softer shooting" . . .

    Last summer I was looking for divergent factory loads to use in my recoil experiment. In testing just three flats of the same brand of light 8's , I found these. Here's number 1, average speed 1168 fps.

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>'

    And here's lot 2, average speed 1129 fps/

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    They are different enough that the slowest shell from lot 1 was 21 fps faster than the fastest from lot 2.

    If a shooter had shot lot 1 all summer he could have replied to Lugerville's question "Well, AA's are not particularly light recoil." And another shooter, shooting lot 2 all summer might reply "Oh yes they are; I never have found anything better in the recoil department.

    And they are both right. That's why there's no answer to Lugerville's question. By the way, if I had chosen another brand, I probably would have found similar differences, since I already have with all brands.

    Neil
     
  20. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    Lugerville:

    While several good points have been made, discussions on ts.c sometimes (frequently?) turn into debates over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I’ll cut directly to the chase: one of the most common errors in clay target shooting is the use of unnecessarily heavy loads.

    It is debatable whether heavy loads (1200 fps) provide any meaningful performance advantage over lighter (1145 fps) loads. There is however, no question that excess recoil results in bad habits, lost targets, and physical pain. Often overlooked, the effects of recoil are cumulative over time. Some shooters are less sensitive than others. Nobody is immune. The key to mitigating the effects is using appropriate loads for a given application.

    If the discussion was turkey or waterfowl hunting, I’d say your son should shoot the biggest bullet he can tolerate. Turkeys and geese are tough critters and big. They don’t go down easy so big guns and big bullets are appropriate. Clay targets OTOH, are easily broken as long as a shooter can apply a small amount of lead shot to them. In that regard, big bullets don’t help. As for differences in target lead, even at 27 yards the difference between your son’s 1145 fps shells and a thumping 1200 fps load is something on the order of four inches.

    Do the kid a favor. If you want to help his shooting, expose him to as many of the instruction tapes as you can buy or borrow from your friends. In no particular order, Phil Kiner, Harlan Campbell, Kay Ohye, and Frank Hoppe all have tapes out.

    As for bullets, stick with the lighter stuff. Leave the thumpers for those with a masochistic predilection.

    sissy
     
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