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Liability Waivers?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by trapbuzz, Jun 21, 2009.

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  1. trapbuzz

    trapbuzz TS Member

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    Does anyone have any experiences with liability waivers at trap shooting events.
    It is becoming quite normal in the Northeast for guests to sign liabity waivers before they are allowed to shoot. This is being driven by insurance companies.
    This is quite common with pistol matches and rifle matches, how about trap
    shooting?
     
  2. Lead Man

    Lead Man TS Member

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    It should be done at any venue. Not that it is worth a whole lot but it may offer the club a little protection from the dipsticks.
     
  3. jrb100

    jrb100 Member

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    There is a club in NH that requires the visiting team in the local league to to sign one.My team signed it a couple of weeks ago(no big deal for us).
     
  4. copper

    copper Member

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    I was told years ago if you charge money for a service or someone gets hurt because of your negligence a waiver is bogus. I think there is reasonable libility, if posted rules are ignored and you can prove it you might stand a chance. Lawyers on here can shed light Dave
     
  5. bigdogtx

    bigdogtx Well-Known Member

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    the only thing that those waivers are good for is killing trees,,,,if your club has an accident and you are NEGLIGENT,,,,no waiver is going to protect you,,,,may make the insurance companies feel better,,,,you cannot get someone to ACCEPT your negligence....
     
  6. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    There is no set answer on waivers- but one thing is clear- if the waiver is well written- and the person understands and has to indicate she/he understand and waives their rights and their families right- that is a step in the right direction.

    It proves that the individual did think about the risks.

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  7. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Toilet paper.

    But better than nothing. It will give you a warm feeling but no protection.

    YOU personally hold harmless the organization. That's wonderful.

    But your kids did not agree to lose their source of support, your wife did not agree to loss of companionship and financial support, and so on.

    Use them but don't think it fixes anything.

    HM
     
  8. spitter

    spitter Well-Known Member TS Supporters

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    Have one, use it every day we shoot, every event we host... glad to offer a copy to anyone interested... send me an email...

    regards to all.

    Jay Spitz
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    They could provide a club with a false sense of security that could lead to lax enforcement of safety rules. If a serious accident were to happen during a shoot, I could see a claim filed against the club, the state organization, the ATA, the gun and shell manufacturers, the company that built the trap machines, the target manufacturer and distributor who supplied the targets to the club and perhaps even the electric company that supplied the power to operate the trap machines. Next, all of the insurance companies would try to protect their individual clients and seek the easiest way out.

    Putting up a sign stating the club is not responsible for accidents and having everyone sign a waver is OK, but it might not help much. The best protection is constant safety vigilance. Secondly, have good insurance. Big Don is an excellent insurance agent in Michigan and he might be able to advise a club. Third, if a situation arises, be sure to hire a lawyer who is better than the other lawyers in the matter.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Ohio Bob

    Ohio Bob Member

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    If you look at the liability forn the SCTP uses, it is not a waiver form, it is a participation form.

    There is more strength in a participation form than a waiver.

    At least that is what one of the friendlier bottom feeders explained at one of the seminars I attended.

    We modeled our release after the SCTP form.

    OB
     
  11. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Just remember that stupidity has no boundries!

    Curt
     
  12. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Some good comments above

    Safey and everyone participating in that process is the most important factor. You are trying to prevent something from happening.

    Liability v. participation document- they are the same thing if written well. The participation part just shows the individual knows what he is participating in, the dangers, and that he accepts that risk. The waiver part, states that he and his assigns, heirs, etc waive any right they have to make a claim agains the club.

    Back to safety. If a person cant reasonably foresee a particular risk or this risk was known by the club but not communicated than you have a big problem.

    Example- club manager is known as "weak" on safety. Example-- member X is known as being unsafe. Example-- tree limb needs to be trimmed its dangerous but you havent gotten around to it. Example --------------------------------

    The plaintiff will get people to line up and testify to the above- and rightfully so.

    You can't stick your head in the sand on these issues. I have personally told many people to open their guns, when they werent open or made numerous other safety corrections on total strangers. I try to do it in a nice manner but if I dont get compliance, I ask them to remove themselves from the firing line immediately. I am not a member of management but I am willing to take that position.

    It is the same people that wont make a correction themselves-== that will stand in line ( maybe subponed) and testify to safety shortcomings. These people are weak sisters.. They need to be appealed to-- and told constantly that safety is everyones buisness.

    Final thought- if something bad happens- and you didnt have a waiver = how are you going to prove that someone knew the risks?

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  13. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    It is sad that we live in a society where everyone is scared of being sued. It restricts our freedoms, restricts our activities and makes everything we do more expensive.
     
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