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Less constriction when forcing cones r lengthened?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by senior smoke, Apr 4, 2013.

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  1. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Hello:
    I have never had any barrel work done to any of my barrels. Recently, I asked a fellow shooter what choke he uses for handicap shooting and it was a lot less than what I would say was normal at his particular yardage.

    He told me he had his forcing cone lengthened and found he did not need as much choke as he used prior to having his barrel worked on.

    My question is this, if you have your barrel's forcing cone lengthened, do you use less choke than you used prior to having the cones lengthened? To my way of thinking, there should be less drag on the wad as it exits the barrel putting more shot on the target, but I would keep the choke the same.

    Anyone have any opinion on choke selection after forcing cones are lengthened?
    Steve Balistreri
     
  2. miketmx

    miketmx Well-Known Member

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    Steve, I doubt that there is any evidence anywhere to support this idea. The lengthened forcing cones may reduce felt recoil but a long yardage shooter still needs a Full Choke.
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    There is less shot deformation with a lengthened forcing cone. This is why you need less choke. HMB
     
  4. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    The shooter that I spoke to was a long time 27 yard shooter. Prior to having his forcing cone lengthened he used .037 at 27 yards.

    After the barrel work was done he states he now uses .030.
    Steve
     
  5. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Steve: Enlighten me, why would there be any difference in wad drag at the choke, the forcing cone is @ the end of the chamber and the wad & shot still have to pass through the length of the bbl. Wouldn't it stabilize in that distance before exiting the bbl. The bore diameter itself has not changed.

    miketmx & hmb have pretty good explanations, or at least that's what makes sense to me. Ross Puls
     
  6. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    hmb, you say "There is less shot deformation with a lengthened forcing cone."

    How do you know that to be true?
     
  7. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    I use a LM in my Blaser on the 16, and get smoke like the Browning did with IM choke.

    Mod on the 25 yd line gets smoke like the XF did in the Browning.

    The Blaser has a 3" chamber and very long forcing cones.

    Also, the more choke the more smoke in both barrels. I have seen a bunch of guns that hit the point of diminishing returns, that is, the XF would not give the breaks of the IM chokes, same brand of choke, same gun.
     
  8. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Ross:
    I am not 100% sure what the answer is to your question as I am not barrel expert. All I am saying is what I was told by this particular shooter.

    When I told this shooter that I thought using .30 choke at 27 yards was less choke than most friends of mine use at 27 yards he said if their barrels have not had lengthened forcing cones, your not compairing apples to apples, as it makes a difference?

    Let's face it, this is one shooter's opinion as it is not scientific. He did say, even using less choke at 27 yards he hits targets better than he did prior to the barrel work being done.

    I would think the reason behind lengthened forcing cones are less recoil and better patterns. If this is not correct, why do shooters have their forcing cones lengtened?
    Steve
     
  9. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Anecdotal nonsense.

    -Gary
     
  10. OLD ONE EYE

    OLD ONE EYE Well-Known Member

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    I prefer the chicken choke for handicap not too tight just right. Left or right handed
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Steve, I did several tests of the benefits of long forcing cones over short and never found a patterning benefit of any kind.

    Finally I took an 870, tested it, "had the forcing cone done," and retested it.

    It was no better;

    stockvslongcone150-3_zps55ea3f3a.gif

    So I don't think that a lengthened forcing cone has any effect on the choke you need.

    Neil
     
  12. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Shocking, LOL.

    -Gary
     
  13. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    Neil:
    Thanks for posting that info.
    Steve
     
  14. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    But Neil, what if by doing this simple procedure you changed the barrel harmonics? You could induce a scenario where the now perfected vibes created lessened choke constriction needs because the wad and shot have a more efficient rotation.
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    But when I tested it, Martin, it didn't. I've done three tests like this (neither of the other two as tightly controlled as this one) and there was no effect.

    All anyone has to do is post data to convince us that it works, and please don't cite that one by JE; it does no such thing.

    As you know, I'm working on a special hyper-torroidal wad/barrel "Competition" tuning package for a few discerning shooters with enough money and we will be putting the wad-rotation effect you know about to work in our favor and I doubt anyone will be able to beat us. Just "pointing north" should get you a solid hit most of the time! When has "doing your part" ever been easier? Would you like to secure your place in line with a substantial deposit? There are still a couple of openings for lucky applicants who want to get in on the round floor!

    Neil
     
  16. Jawhawker

    Jawhawker TS Member

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    Neil, now if your going to present statements with gussied up words such as " hyper-torridoidal" thatan old hillbilly has to do some thinking on and thus considering quite possibly there is a "carnival barker" effect attached, then substantial monetary funding could result in undo hesitation.

    Please allow substantial period for pprocrastination purposes.
     
  17. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    I'll save you a spot at no cost for old time's sake, Martin. Just send your gun to me well before the Grand when I will have to shoot against you . . .

    Neil

    What's wrong with a carnival barker?

    Kyra
     
  18. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    Neil, I am expecting someone to challenge your 870 forcing cone job. Something must have gone wrong. Everyone knows long cones means less pellet distortion. hmb even said so.

    Pretty obvious it doesn't work that way. Dr Jones once offered a hypothesis that longer cones might cause more pellet deformation. Looking at the total % change could he be right?

    From reading the results of your many tests it appears that most of the details that people argue about, wads, barrel dia, forcing cones, etc, really have no effect at all. The exception would be chokes and even then the difference isn't always what is expected.
     
  19. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    I know first hand what a BAD forcing cone cut will do to a good shooting P TM-1! It did have an effect on the patterns too! Weak on one side of my patterns till I got it re-cut properly! I think it was a gas blow-by problem that tweaked the patterns consistantly?

    Hap
     
  20. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Johnny,
    I used a deformatiom meter to check the shot. There was a measurable difference between long and short foring cone shot. HMB
     
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