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Lengthening Forcing Cones

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by ABH, Aug 22, 2011.

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  1. ABH

    ABH Member

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    Is there any data out there showing that lengthened forcing cones reduces recoil or improves a guns pattern? Does this barrel treatment have merrit, or is it just another avenue for gunsmiths to lighten our pockets?

    ART H.
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Yes, yes, and yes.

    HM
     
  3. Kemper

    Kemper Active Member

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    It will make a mess of your pattern if it's not done with ease. probably has the most impact on the core of anyhing you can do.

    Barry Kemper
     
  4. 87AA

    87AA TS Member

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    Reduced recoil, yes in theory.
     
  5. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I have never seen any hard test data or evidence that it does anything more than make gunsmiths some money.

    I guarantee it will weaken your barrel.

    87AA, I know a little about Bernoulli's principle, and I am perplexed as to how you think it can be applied to lengthening forcing cones and reducing recoil.
     
  6. dverna

    dverna Active Member

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    timb99

    You are correct. There is no affect on recoil and Bernoulli's principal is not pertinent wrt the question posed. Recoil is the result of speed and weight of the payload.

    Intuitively, it makes sense that a more gradual taper, should aid in reducing pellet deformation. And a rounder pellet should fly truer.


    Don Verna
     
  7. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Art, While some say they have found no proof that lenthened forceing cones improve patterns "Why Has Browning Lenthened Theres 3 Times In The Last 18 Years"??? They just lenthened them again with there newest 625 sporting!!! While I believe lenthened forceing cones may help with recoil, I believe the effect is hardly measurable, and the shooter would not feel it. Now if you add overbored barrels, lenthened forceing cones, ported barrels and bundle all 3 together like Browning does. Then Yes after a day of shooting you can notice the difference after your finished, but even then not in one shot or just one box of ammo. I also believe your better off getting all 3 done at the factory and not to make a old barrel into one of todays "target barrels". If recoil is a issuse for you buy a recoil reducer for your firearm. Breakemall Jeff
     
  8. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    "Why Has Browning Lenthened Theres 3 Times In The Last 18 Years"???

    Because advertising works. New and Improved! I agree with Tim, there should be data showing obvious improvement, where is it?.
     
  9. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Damn, Jerry, you stole my line!
     
  10. BAD 303

    BAD 303 Active Member

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    Heritage Gunshop(Eyester)has some good reading and some pattern testing on the effect of forcing cone work on their web page. I think a few of you are not well informed in regards to pattern effect. From those that have done the testing and research it does make a difference in the patterns. As far as recoil, i have never heard say anyone they could tell the difference. The big question might be does it make enough difference to justify the cost?
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Years ago it made more difference. Hard shot was not in universal use as it is today.

    We used to choose chilled or hard, now all I see is one grade.

    The less hard shot would benefit from gentle forcing cone action, and yes, pattern better.

    HM
     
  12. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I seem to recall Neil Winston doing a test with an 870 barrel, and it showed no improvement.
     
  13. sts1100

    sts1100 Member

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    The recoil effect question was asked at the gun club in the 80s after I bought a new Browning GTI, I shot a couple of hundred shells through it with no malfunctions as would be expected. I had the forcing cones lengthened to 1 1/2 inches, after having the forcing cones lengthen the trigger would not reset so the second barrel would not fire. A trigger adjustment was necessary to get the second barrel to fire which it continues to do with out issues today. It might have been just this gun but having the forcing cones lengthened did impact the inertia trigger. Yes the same shells were used before and after.
     
  14. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    All new trapguns have long forcing cones, Kolar, Caesar Guerini, Kreighoff, Seitz, Ljutic, Beretta, Browning, Bowen, Etc.

    Look down the Bbl and you can tell right away if you have seen long forcing cones.

    At least that is my observation, some are longer than Others.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  15. bluedevil

    bluedevil Active Member

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    Bob Brister's book had some data that showed it improved shot performance but with todays soft lead and cheap shells I'm not sure it's worth the effort.
     
  16. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    The only thing I'll say about the matter is look at a Wilkinson tuned barrel sometime. I consider him to be the premier shotgun barrel tuner right now and he tunes all aspects of the of the barrel. I've never had a gun shoot better than an old 682 he did for me yars ago.

    ss
     
  17. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Thank You SS. I was waiting for someone to bring him up. Now what do you think that Wilkinson does to your older/ or newer barrels??? Overbores it, reduces and lenthings the forceing cones, and adjusts the choke at the end for the adjustments he made to the barrel itself. Just like Brownings invector plus chokes guns and Beretta's Optima bore choke guns. Heck even Reminton has there new choke system now. Re-read Dr Longshots post above may help you as well. Jerry/Tim if this does not help change your mind/ well!!!! Just keep your old ways of thinking and let the rest of us move forward. Break-em all Jeff
     
  18. BAD 303

    BAD 303 Active Member

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    Do you guys think all forcing cone work is done the same way? Same angles and same length?
     
  19. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    My clymer reamer is 1 & 1/2 degrees. Tests have shown this to be the optimum and less than that seems to not work nay better.

    The length of the forcing cone will be a function of bore diameter.

    A narrow bore will have a longer 1 & 1/2 degree cone than a larger bore, since you are starting at the same diameter chamber.

    HM
     
  20. Steve Fischer

    Steve Fischer Member

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    Having done countless forcing cone lengthening, both on customer's guns and my own, I can tell you that there is indeed a positive affect to the pattern performance from a barrel with lengthened forcing cones. Pellet distribution and pattern percentage was improved in every case by actual testing. The less deformation to the pellet, the better the pattern performance, with far fewer flyers and more pellets in the core. The optimum length for a cone is about 1 o 1-1/2 inches,and extensive testing showed no further gain obtained by extending the cone out to 2,3,4, or more inches.

    The barrel of some guns such as the Beretta 390 and 391 have less barrel material over the long end of the chamber, and there have been quite a number of burst barrels ( shot with cones done by so well known and prominent gunsmiths) because of cutting the forcing cones too long in these barrels.

    The affects on recoil are small, but measurable with the proper equipment. Most shooters won't feel much if any difference, but will see better pattern performance, especially from the cheapy shells.

    Because of the extremely short forcing cones in some of the older Winchester model 12's, some lessening of felt recoil can be realized.
     
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