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Legal Loads

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by John Thompson, May 25, 2008.

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  1. John Thompson

    John Thompson TS Member

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    I am having a problem interpreting the latest rule on maximum loads. In Trap & Field yearbook, page D 15 the rule G-3 states speeds for different shot Charges. It goes on to state "ANY FACTORY LOADED SHELL MARKED IN EXCESS OF 3 DRAM EQUIVALENT (D.E.) SHALL BE PRESUMED TO EXCEED THE SPEED LIMITS HEREIN AND SHALL NOT BE USED". Herein lies the problem. Does this last statement mean all shells marked 3 1/4 1 1/8 are "ILLEGAL"? One of our state delegates interpretes this statement; due to "PRESUMED"; means you can shoot 3 1/4 loads if the box states under 1290 fps. regardless of shot charge? Help Neil Winston or EC
     
  2. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    You seem to be saying that you have boxes of shells that are marked as 3 1/4 dram and also state that the velocity is less than 1290 fps. What brand of shells are these? Or is this a "what if" question? In my opinion, the rule is very clear, and is not subject to any interpretation. "and shall not be used" is not ambiguous.
     
  3. Fish Springs

    Fish Springs Member

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    So what do you do with ammunition labled 3 1/4 DE,(1250 FPS) 1 1/8 oz 7.5 Shot?
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    It is my understanding that the ATA did away with all rules about DE. They now use FPS for 7/8, 1, and 1 1/8 ounce loads. HMB
     
  5. Chango2

    Chango2 Active Member

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    You mean I have to stop using my buffered reloads?
     
  6. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, a version of the rulebook had that sentence, essentially by mistake. It's not in the printed version, nor will it be again if I can help it. HMB is right.

    Neil
     
  7. squirrelkiller

    squirrelkiller TS Member

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    What about Federal Game "Shok" shells? 3 1/4, 1oz., 1290 fps. Sold at WalDog for $4.98.

    Squirrel
     
  8. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    1oz at 1290fps is fine. HMB
     
  9. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Gary Waalkes_ I still see some confusion with the rule and what is marked on shell boxes. If dram three equivalent is marked on the box, by factory standards this can be anything between 1110 ft/sec and 1290 ft/sec. The rule book states that 1290 is the maximum velocity allowed for a 1 1/8 oz shell. A velocity of 1290 ft/sec measured with an induction chronograph (used by most factories) will give a reading higher than that when measured with a light chronograph.

    I shoot a of of Win.Super Handicap shells. I suspect some of the shot in my pattern is traveling faster than allowed by the rule book, some of the shot is going 1290 ft/sec and some of it is slower.

    Pat Ireland
     
  10. Gary Waalkes

    Gary Waalkes Well-Known Member

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    Good old configuration management and quality control have again conspired to create another mistake. I just checked my actual rule book and the the offending language does not exist. If I look at the rules published in the Average book, there it is. I still think the discussion is about nothing.

    Mr Pat Ireland, I am certain you are correct at least on a higher level. I bet if we were to chronograph your super handicap loads, at least 4 out of the box will exceed the max allowable. I suspect if you were to chronograph a box of shells, you will find large deviations. Rules don't seem to handle that possibility when.
     
  11. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    Steve, I think you mean 3 DRAM(not gram). The Standard for 3 Dram Equav. was 1200fps +90fps, which is how the new rule came into effect. Dram equav. is a hold over from the black powder days when powder was loaded in "Drams". Some folks are still stuck on the D.E. thing and can't seem to get it that no matter WHAT Dram Equav. is printed on the box, it is the FPS/ shot wieght that detremines what a legal load is. Current rules are 1290 for 1-1/8 oz.---- 1325 for 1 oz.-- and 1350 for 7/8 oz. I had one older fellow who had an outdated rule book trying to tell me that the shells I was shooting at the time(marked 3-1/4 Dram 1275 fps were ilegal. He wouldn't beleive they had changed the rules(even when I showed him a current rule book). Iguess somebody FINALLY convienced him, because he quit harping on it but news must travel slow. There are a lot of outdated rule books out there.
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    slide action- Could you give me some loading data on a nice 3 gram load for my first shot on doubles using Red Dot ?

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    Pat, since SL is a little slow responding,

    Try 18 grs Red Dot, Rem STS hull, Rem TGT 12, Rem 209P; 3 grams #8 shot plus 25 grams #8.5 as a filler.

    Smashes the first shot doubles when you do your part. Smokes em if you are over choked.

    Jason
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Jason- Your shot charge (28 grams) seems about right, but I am more interested in the load mentioned above that uses 3 grams of powder.

    Pat Ireland
     
  15. AJJ

    AJJ TS Member

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    Here we go again, when will the ATA just use the common sense method, of just the weight of shot as the rule. This seems to work for the Olympic shooters, the maximum they are allowed is a few pellets under 7/8 of an ounce.Weight can be measured very easily, forget about these velocity numbers. AJ.
     
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