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Leave the ATA as it is !!!!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by BIGDON, Oct 23, 2007.

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  1. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    WHY can't you just accept the ATA and it's rules as they are??

    This sport has survived over 100 years and I think you should either accept the rules as they are and play the game or sit on the sidelines.

    This sport is like many others and even work. You make a choice either play by the rules or don't play. You come to the sport for what it is not to change it to meet your abilities, to bring the sport down to your level.

    The rules are the rules, accept them or reject them but let your choice determine your action of being either in the sport or out of the sport. I would prefer that you stay with us but if you don't then so be it and good fortune in whatever you choose to do with your time.

    I am especially tired of "D" class shooters trying to change our sport and exponding on what's wrong with the ATA and what we ought to do. If you can't handle "D" class and get out of that class then maybe you shouldn't shoot registered.

    I am tired of hearing about costs, it is what it is. It's not pleasant but it's where we are at this time, whining about it doesn't make it change. Be frugal, shop harder and get rain checks when sellers are out of sale shells.

    Plain and simple either support your ATA and enjoy the sport for what it is or take a seat. You all have an equal chance at success, take it and do your best and accept the results.

    I truly hope you all choose to stay in this great sport, accept it as is and enjoy it for many years as I have.

    Don
     
  2. motrap

    motrap Member

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    Don ......... I kinda' think that has been going on ....... and it hasn't been boding well the last few years ......... your "take-it-or-leave-it" attitude is a privilege that few businesses, politicians, and yes, organizations have been able to afford ............

    97% of the ATA is great and wonderful .......... the other 3% could stand some scrutiny as times evolve.

    Rudy

    P.S. I picked those %'s out of the air, but I know neither is 100% .......
     
  3. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    You keep mentioning rules ... that is the problem ... rules ... there aint really none cause the "rulebook" is always up to interpretation.

    BTW ... just think if there were a few interpretation changes that changed the sport and caused it to gain more shooters. Now what would be wrong with that? Maybe more competition for those who scream for no changes and ... well ... maybe they will no longer be as Big as the think they are?
     
  4. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    Accurate and to the point as always. Big Don is right again.
     
  5. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Rules, Laws, Decisions and Actions in life are always subject to further and more detailed interpretations. That's why there is a Juducial System....duh!!

    From my point of view and/or perception of trap (and other sports) is that americans are increasingly less competitive as they once were. Some people have never been competitive in sports due to physical and/or mental limitations. Registered trapshooting is about competition and only about 10 - 15% of the shooters at any given shoot are real competitors, the rest fall into the Classes below AAA/AA.

    People do not like to be categorized as failures and once they realize they cannot be competitive in regisitered trap, they leave for another sport that may have more built-in excuses for failure.

    Curt - Delaware
     
  6. FloridaTrapper

    FloridaTrapper TS Member

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    Ditto Brain...LMAO
     
  7. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    I'll agree with that Ditto for sure.
     
  8. SirMissalott

    SirMissalott Active Member

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    I just enjoy shooting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    SirMissalott ... I think I might know one of your relatives MissHitalott and dang she is a hottie!
     
  10. Butterfingers

    Butterfingers TS Member

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    Big Don if it were not for D,C,B. Shooters there would not be an ATA or shoots for you to attend. I have shoot years as a C,B,A class (singles 120,000), (caps. 22 to 27 80,000),(doubles 75000). I am glad there is enough grunts to fill up the squad and you should too.
    2201878
     
  11. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    In reality in this world nothing stays "as it is". It is either getting better or worse. Fortunately, we ususally have some control over that process. We are all getting older, but we can also exercise and eat well to minimize or offset that process.

    However, we have to be honest with our assessment of a situation to determine if things are getting better or worse. If worse, we have to have the courage, dedication and intelligence to implement positive changes. If things are getting better, we have to accentuate those things that are positive and guard against threats to those positives.

    So, in the matter of the ATA, like everything else, we have to ask is it getting better or worse? The numbers seem to indicate a downward trend. Is this good or bad?
     
  12. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    Mr Brooks ... it is good for those that do not want change but bad for those who will not have anyone around to shoot against.

    There is nothing wrong with change ... nothing wrong at all. I am actually surprised that a organization like the ATA has not banded together with other clay target organizations and hired a lobbyist firm or firms to plead the plight on Capitol hill for the interest of all clay target sport shooters ... or do they have that now?

    I dont think they do and if we leave it all as it is ... well ... that aint good. The ATA needs to change with the times and if people do not like change they can leave and not return. It would be very interesting to see if the ATA made some changes just what would happen to the number of members over the course of a couple of years.

    I predict that if the changes were for the good of the sport to make the sport more competitive to all shooters instead of favoring the elite that those who complain about the change will stay but those who will see and like the new changes will come back to the ATA but only changing things and time would determine whether that prediction would come true.
     
  13. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Thank you for the comments lumper. However, I don't really see the sport favoring the elite shooters because it doesn't seem to offer them very much. There are maybe 12-15 shoots per year where the very best shooters can win a few thousand dollars. After expenses, those few thousand aren't very much.

    If the sport was growing, the handful of elite instructors like Leo would have 20 people in each class and could be making a decent living. If we were recruiting guys who can afford to shoot, they would be able and willing to pay entry fees that would result in better trophies and prize money.
     
  14. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    That is the changes that need to be made ... changes that will bring more shooters to the field that will create larger shoots with better prizes and prize monies.

    The problem though is to change like that will upset those that do not want the new added competition from the new shooters.
     
  15. maltzahn

    maltzahn Active Member

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    Lumper wrote:

    "The problem though is to change like that will upset those that do not want the new added competition from the new shooters."

    Just who would that be? The elites in trapshooting would not be intimidated. The dedicated to "get there" shooters, will still be focused on attaining the averages to be competitive with the elites. (paying the price) All others compete in the classes, and yardage groups. The options, money and trophies shifted to pay the different segmented groups.

    Lumper, who are you talking about? New shooters have a well designed and fair approach to organized trapshooting, thanks to the ATA. I see no one left out of opportunity. Only those that want special treatment before they are willing to play.

    Maltzie
     
  16. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    BigDon, I agree with the following statement you made above "You come to the sport for what it is not to change it to meet your abilities, to bring the sport down to your level." I joined the ATA in 1987 and thought the rules were just fine as they were. So, what do I do about the changes since then? JRM
     
  17. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Positive changes are good and welcomed by all serious trapshooters. I would like to see some specific positive changes recommended.

    lumper- The ATA has come a long way in lobbying efforts by becoming closely involved with the NRA. Many of us remember the one time gap between the NRA and the ATA. We can thank Willis C. (cattle rancher from Missouri) for bringing us together.

    Pat Ireland
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    lumper you slay me first you say "You keep mentioning rules ... that is the problem ... rules ... there aint really none cause the "rulebook" is always up to interpretation." Then you get around to "That is the changes that need to be made ... changes that will bring more shooters to the field that will create larger shoots with better prizes and prize monies" Try and understand if you promote rule changes of any kind there will still be a rulebook and rules and those rules will still have to be interpreted. So you will not win your point and you know that so you back anything that will cause more friction more ways to say rule shouldn't be subject to interpretation. Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    just because the ATA has been around for 100 years doesn't make it allways right. look at GM, FORD AND CHRYSLER. If they don't changed things they may go down the tubes.
     
  20. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    bigdon, nothing against you. i like the ATA, I like to shoot. Most of the rules are good but even as our new president said the ATA needs some changes. GET er Done before we loss more members. 95% of the ATA shooters are d,c,b shooters. They are the majority of shooters that pays the bills. It is a fool who don't listen to some of there thoughts. I have seen a reduction of 50% of ATA shooters at my clubs since 1993. That's a problem. Good shooting.
     
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