1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

League Classification Average???

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by pyrdek, Mar 3, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,295
    If you have a trap league that uses classifications based on averages for the individuals, do you have your averages set up to basically even the distribution of shooters in each class or do you use fixed averages based, either loosely or tightly on the ATA averages used for whatever number of classes you have in your league?

    In the one case, would you adjust the averages so that out of, say for ease of math, 500 shooters, roughly 100 are in each class AA, A B, C, D? Or would you keep the average for AA say at 97.5 and above even if this resulted in only 15 AA shooters and 175 A shooters, 150 B class 150 C class and 10 D class (or similar uneven distribution?

    On the one hand the argument can be made that AA recognizes the "Cream of the Crop" who have earned their spot by performance while the even distribution mode puts more nearly equal number of shooters in each group.

    If you do use the "balance the number in each class" basis, how often do you re-examine what the results are and if average changes are needed to keep the balance (every year, every two years, every four years, other)?

    This is for a league only and it does not have any connection to registered ATA targets.

    What does your league do? What are your personal feelings about the averages/distribution?
     
  2. wtjohnso

    wtjohnso Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    42
    How about no classes, all shooters are equal and they compete against themselves. Need a formula to come up with a 50/50 weighted balance between improvement and consistency. That result should be that newer shooters who will improve more with regular shooting might win the improvement piece but not be very consistent while excellent shooters who are always consistent won't win the improvement scale.
     
  3. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,295
    The suggestion for improvement vs consistency would not apply in this case. The existing structure of classification has been in effect for this league for about 40 years. I can give you every assurance that changing to this c/i mode would not be accepted.
     
  4. jdsfarms

    jdsfarms Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,506
    We use ATA classes to classify our shooters according to the average of the last two years of league scores,but cannot be less than your ATA class and if you win your class you get bumped up one class,junior shooters are classed by division.Jerry
     
  5. clydep

    clydep Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    78
    I feel strongly that in a league or league post season shoot where there are equal trophies in each class that management should do everything possible to have the same number in each class.(this could be plus or minus 1,2,or 3 depending on the number of shooters) By using a posted no. to determine the breaks per class allows some to try the sandbagging game. Also, I don't think it's fair to everyone if you have 5% in one class and 35% in another and 40% in still another when each class has the same number of trophies. I agree with Pyrdek that to get this accepted in his league will be close to impossible. I have a Winter Skeet League that is currently in it's 27th year with approx. 100 shooters and the above method is used with 5 classes at our post season and it is well received. As someone said earlier.......just my two pennies worth. Clydep
     
  6. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,295
    The way our league works to award its trophies currently is as follows:

    Your average across the 14 shoot season determines your Post Season Shoot classification. The Post Season Trophy shoot is where you will shoot in the class with all others that shot a similar average (sort of)across the season. You do have to shoot a minimum of six shoots to have this average for your classification.

    A new ADULT shooter who has not established an average will shoot in the AA class during his/her 1st season but, if the minimum number of shoots is met, they will be entered in the Post Season shoot with the class based on the average shot in the regular season. Juniors, shooting in their first Season are entered in B class for the season and Sub-Jrs shooting their first season enter in C class unless "known ability" warrants a higher classification.

    Everyone shoots the Post Season in the class they earned in the regular season. If they shot less than six shoots, they are in AA class regardless of age. The only exception is a Class winner in the preceding Post Season or Pre Season shoot. A, B C and D class winners in the pre are Bumped up a class in their next pre or post. For the season, they shoot in the class they earned the previous year without any "bump".

    We award trophies in the Pre Season Shoot, the Post Season shoot and Class Champion and Runner-Up for the Season (does not count scores shot in pre or post.)

    I am trying to get the classification averages adjusted slightly. It will not need more than a 0.5 bird change to equalize the number of shooters in each class. And even that 0.5 bird is only needed in 3 of the classes. I have met with some resistance from those who feel that AA should be the "reward" for above average shooting regardless of the number of shooters in that or other classes.

    Both sides have their merits and I will have to see what the result of our discussions will be. I am curious of how other leagues handle this question.
     
  7. Big Jack

    Big Jack Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,735
    Location:
    Erie, Pa
    I have been privy to a discussion on this subject and if you put yourself in the position of the let's say a class B shooter who due to the number required in class A to so call level the field, is moved up to A even though it places him in the bottom of the class rather then the position he earned in class B. His opportunity of winning in Class A would be far more difficult then if he were to remain in "B". It levels the field making the class divisions closer to equal in number but not in ability. I would prefer to compete in the class I earn then moved to a higher class to help balance the so called field. I understand Joe's point but I'm sure he will find a lot of opposition to restructing the by laws that were created forty some years past & have served their need reasonably well all these years.

    Big Jack
     
  8. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,295
    UPDATE: We had the League's annual meeting of the team captains. This is where league operations for the year are discussed, schedule is adopted and league rules may be changed. All of these require a vote by the eight team captains.

    At the meeting the averages used for classification purposes were adjusted slightly. The change adopted shifted averages used for AA, B and C class by 0.5 targets and resulted in a more uniform distribution. The change will be taking place at the end of the 2011 season. All shooters will be competing for season trophies using the classifications based on the old system. The first shoot after the completion of the season, called the Post Season Shoot, will utilize the new averages for classification.

    It has been the norm for the season champs in each class to have shot an average that is considerably above the top end of that class average limit. Now it is up to the members to check out the new information and say something if they have objections.

    Notice of this change was provided for all members on the Leagues web pages so they can look for themselves to see what they would be classified on for shooting a particular average.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.