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Leadership

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by brigade, Jul 18, 2009.

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  1. brigade

    brigade TS Member

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    In my opinion We do not have ANY leadership in our government. What is your opinion. Ed
     
  2. LWLarson

    LWLarson Member

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    You are way off base. This administration has shown tremendous leadership. They have pulled us down the fast path to socialism. Evidently, they want to destroy our country, before we can clean house in 2010....

    LWL
     
  3. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The current Leadership has us on the unpaved road to Hell, what do you mean they aren't leading ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  4. Guard Rail

    Guard Rail TS Member

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    The case can be made very easily that Obama is in fact a communist. He will soon, if not already, have us so far in debt we will be little more than slaves. I fear the days of being world leaders have come to an end. The new American Dream has become, I want it all, I want it now, and I don't want to have to pay for it. If you don't have the money go borrow it. It is my right. That goes for illegals too.

    The Dept. of Homeland Security recently released a report concerning potential right wing terrorists that included: veterans, people against abortion, people against same sex marriage, those against illegal immigration, those suspicious of communists, those suspicious of other governments, those who fear gun confiscation/registration, those who fear a one world government. This is just part of the list. The full report is easy to find if you would like to read it.


    BK
     
  5. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    There is no one in DC that you can give the title of being a leader.

    What we have in DC is a bunch of Tyrant's!

    We need another gathering of "Leaders" who will put together another Declaration of Independence and sent it to all in DC, then find another General Washington!!
     
  6. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    Most all politicians in Washington believe they are not replaceable which makes them very, very dangerous...the American voter has caused this belief. Nothing is going to stop the great US political machine from storming ahead unless there is an successful organized revolt against their never ending destruction of our nation.

    Mark Rounds
     
  7. BT-100dc

    BT-100dc Active Member

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    Talk about leadership, think about the way the House of Representatives receives a 1,000 plus page bill and votes on it without reading the bill and without debate. Their actions are an insult to their constituents who they are obligated to represent. So far this year, the Stimulus Bill and Cap & Trade were examples of this misfeasance; next will be healthcare reform. Whether they be Democrats or Republicans, they need to be voted out of office. We can only get better if we hold these clowns responsible for what they are doing to destroy our country. BT-100dc
     
  8. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Interesting question.

    Defining "Leadership" is the challenge. If having steadfast views and forwarding an extreme liberal agenda as quickly as possible before your political capital and advantage diminishes, then it could be argued that the current administration has shown excellent leadership. I don't personally think that this is good leadership because I don't agree with where we're going. Let's look at the topic from a business standpoint for a moment...

    I took a graduate course in Executive Leadership a few years ago and some of the exercises and in-class debates were fascinating. For example, if the executive staff of an American corporation, operating internationally, meets its profitability goals, pays a dividend, increases stock value ahead of industry averages and thereby earns their maximum bonuses, have they demonstrated good leadership? What if we also add that they committed no crimes?... good leadership? What if they were also good stewards of the environment... good leadership? OK, what if they also laid-off half the workforce as they automated and ramped-up efficiency? What if the reputation of the company had suffered because quality had diminished as profits increased? (Yes, this has happened many many times) What if this happened for five years straight and profits kept going up? What if the union workers hate your guts because you held down their wages and benefits but don't recognize that you saved their jobs in the process? Is popularity important? Or can you be despised and be a good leader? What if five years later no Americans were employed by this company, except the executives, but the stockholders were doing well? Is that good leadership? If thousands of stockholders are doing very well and the company is growing and paying huge taxes, is it OK to have laid-off those hourly workers? What about their families? But wait, the stockholders, many of whom are innocent middle-income 401K holders who might not even know they have a stake in your company, also have families and they are counting on you to increase the value of their shares. Are you your brother's keeper or should you just try to keep your high-paying job?

    These issues are not universally agreed upon, by any stretch. Ethics and morals come into play and the topic of greed arises. Conflicts between loyalty to stockholders and loyalty to countrymen come into play. Rationalization becomes necessary because you tell yourself that things are competitive and if you take the "moral high road" and don't play hardball, they'll simply fire you and hire someone who will. What good would you have done then?

    Leadership, in my view, is finding the best way to reconcile all these conflicting forces and doing what is best in the long run -- both for the organization you represent, and for all the stakeholders. But doing that can also get you fired -- very quickly in many competitive industries with impatient stockholders. I've had the pleasure of discussing and debating these topics with several of the smartest business and acedemic people I've ever met, and I've been surprised by how much everyone's opinion differs. Anyone who thinks "Leadership" is easy to achieve, or even to define, or thinks it is all a matter of "common sense," probably hasn't been in charge or put much thought into it.

    Getting back to politics, it's even harder in that arena because you also have to get re-elected and play ball with party leaders. There's also payback. And again, is popularity an indicator of good leadership? Reagan, who in my opinion was our last great political leader, was popular but is still hated by many. He had very few close friends when he was in office. Even his own kids weren't close to him. But I feel that he took his lumps and did what he thought was right for the country. To me, that's good leadership.

    Regardless of whether we're talking about political leadership or business leadership, these are very interesting and important issues, but they are also extremely complex.

    -Gary
     
  9. crusha

    crusha TS Member

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    There _is_ a leader. He is Barack Obama. He is driving the agenda HIS way. Like it or not, that's leadership.


    And he's a mighty fine piper, too, because there seems to be no shortage of followers.
     
  10. brigade

    brigade TS Member

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    Gary

    How would you best describe barack ? Ed
     
  11. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    Brigade: I think Obama is left-wing extremist whose agenda, bias, and lack of experience threatens much of what I love about this country (liberty, privacy, self-reliance, individualism and economic growth via free-market forces). He's dangerous in my opinion, and his real agenda might be even worse than what's on the face of it. But Buzz-gun is exactly right -- Obama may be leading the forces against what many of us feel is good and right, but that doesn't mean he's not a leader. Look at Hitler -- one could argue that he was an extraordinary leader. Leadership of evil and hate is still leadership, right?

    Timberfaller: I disagree with your first sentence, but I like your rant and suggested solution!

    By the way, I am NOT comparing Obama to Hitler, so please don't lump me in with those types.

    -Gary
     
  12. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    Well Gary let be more specific,

    Leaders have their followers, There is no one in DC that I personally could follow.

    So to me there is no one there that I would give that title too.

    A leader to me is someone I would lay down my life for.
     
  13. brigade

    brigade TS Member

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    I would compare him to Hitler. And I would agree with markdenis's solution.
     
  14. GW22

    GW22 Active Member

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    I agree with Mark too, although we need to be careful regarding exactly what we mean by "revolt." The wrong kind of revolt could be tragic and would give the government further excuse to move in the wrong direction (reduced liberty, more gun control, less privacy).

    I like to think that the "Obama experiment" will turn out well in the end. Think about it -- without the horrible presidency of Jimmy Carter, there probably would not have been a Ronald Reagan. Once today's young people who were duped by the attractiveness of mindless change see the wheels come off, hopefully many will learn their lesson about trusting government just like we did with Carter. The pendulum will swing back.

    The problem however, is that so much of what Obama is trying to do might be irreversible. We will likely not live long enough to recover from the reckless spending. If the government gets their hands on healthcare they will never relinquish control. Gun control will be irreversible. Many taxes and entitlements will remain. For example, it took us 108 years to rid ourselves of the 3% federal excise tax on long-distance calls which was originally imposed on "wealthy" people (only wealthy people had phones back then). It was originally a "temporary tax" used to fund the Spanish American war!

    As Otter said in the movie Animal House, "You F'd-up Flounder -- you trusted us."

    -Gary
     
  15. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    And California offers it's leadership.

    "Urine-recycling projects were kicked off in the late-1990s—concurrently with NASA’s efforts. Orange County, California, opened its $427-million Groundwater Replenishment System in late 2007 to stop the encroachment of Pacific Ocean water on its groundwater basin, which supplies potable water to 500,000 residents from the Santa Ana River, a tributary of the Colorado. To keep the Pacific at bay, the Orange County Water District started injecting super-pure water into the basin to create a “water dam” between the brine and the groundwater. The injection stream comes from the one plentiful source the district had at its disposal: wastewater. It purifies 70 million gallons of water daily from treated sewage supplied by the local sanitation department. A primary filtration method is reverse osmosis—the same method used in desalination. Several independent audits found that the district’s purified water was of higher quality than the water in the groundwater basin where it’s injected.

    If the water is so pure, why not just send it directly to the people? Aside from a handful of natural-health proponents who claim that drinking your own urine has health benefits, there are few who are comfortable with the idea—even if the water has been cleaned. “There’s a deep emotional revulsion that is counterpoised by this being good for the environment and safe,” says Paul Rozin, a University of Pennsylvania psychologist who studies the emotion of disgust. Detractors of recycling systems have developed terms such as “toilet to tap” to play up the “yuck factor” with direct recycling. (The only plant that actually practices toilet-to-tap recycling is in Windhoek, Namibia, the driest African country south of the Sahara.)

    Orange County counteracted people’s attitudes with aggressive outreach, giving hundreds of presentations to community organizations and offering samples of its recycled water. “From a public-education standpoint,” advises Shivaji Deshmukh of the Orange County Water Distict, “make sure you don’t hide anything and you start early.” Today, Singapore and cities in Australia, as well as Los Angeles and San Diego (both cities that recently caved to public dissent on recycling systems) are developing reclamation.

    These plans can be a key component of any plan to combat water scarcity. So it’s a good thing that most people Rozin has surveyed accept it as a cost of civilization. For those whose disgust persists, Deshmukh offers this reminder: “Most of the water we use has been recycled."

    "In Southern California, five or six states have used (and put back) water from the Colorado River before we ever get to it.”
     
  16. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    Did you ever see such a thing. This fool comes in riding the white guilt liberal wave and has the government taking over everything. Our most junior senator. A community organizer. Now he is running what was the most powerful nation the world has ever seen. He is accumulating so much debt and power to the government at such blinding speed that it is staggering to watch. The closest thing we have ever had to a dictator. If we survive him he will go down as the worst president we ever had. Look at the boobs now running America. Did you ever think it could get this bad?
     
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