1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

Lead up, Shot up, Batteries down, What's up??

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by jappo, Jul 28, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. jappo

    jappo TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    45
    Everyone knows that the price of lead is up, price of shot is up, why are car and tractor batteries down???? I just bought a new battery yesterday that was exacty the same as another I bought about a year ago and it was cheaper than the one I bought last year at the same store...
    That's a little confusing from everything else we're hearing.. Anyone have any good answer as to why batteries haven't gone up in price?????
     
  2. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,649
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    Batteries have very little to do with firearms.

    HM
     
  3. harleyhog

    harleyhog TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    65
    Batteries are full of lead
     
  4. smartass

    smartass TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,099
    Halfwit is full of hot air too.
     
  5. BudLight

    BudLight Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    196
    World lead usage.

    Industry %
    Batteries 71

    Pigments & other compounds 12

    Rolled & extruded products 7

    Shot / ammunition 6

    Cable sheathing 3

    Alloys 1


    Total 100
     
  6. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,649
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    anonymous, that was very witty. You should right click on it and select "save" so you can use it again in case you are tempted to think.

    HM
     
  7. K80Dude

    K80Dude Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    317
    I sell batteries for a living. You think the ammo manufactures have had price increases and shot is expensive? Try being in the battery business. We have been getting cost increases monthly from many manufactures, others are 4-5 times a year. We have been seeing increases over 10% each time depending on the market segment. In many cases we have had to either take lower margins, take a loss or in some lucky cases break even. The problem is not raising your price prior to your competition. Everyone is trying to gain market share and some are using the price increases to under sell you and raise their price latter then you. I hate to admit it but your used battery is worth more to me then selling you one. So much so that we can make over 10K a day just in junk batteries. So in some markets the new battery has become a lost leader. The price of the battery you just paid for is either older inventory, sold at a much lower GP then before, sold at a loss or in some cases stores do not update their retail price based on their cost and end up selling items at a loss and not knowing it (this is more common then you can imagine). Bottom line is batteries have gone way way way way up!

    Dave
     
  8. jappo

    jappo TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    45
    Thanks K80dude/Dave... That answers that question. I would guess it would be a better chance of being an older inventory and him not adjusting prices yet.
    I couldn't imagine batteries not going up with lead going up so much. Just got a last good deal on a battery I guess.
     
  9. Fast Oil

    Fast Oil TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    918
    Think about it! When you buy a battery you give back the old one. What do you think is done with it. It is reused / recycled. Re read above from K80dude "your used battery is worth more to me then selling you one."

    Now if we had to "return" an equal amount of lead back when we purchased new shells or a bag of shot I would think that this market would be more stable.

    Just a thought.
     
  10. hoggy

    hoggy TS Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,261
    So, I'm wondering where I should take all the old battery's I have laying around in my garage. Only 3 or 4 but they must be worth a bit now.
     
  11. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,649
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    In my experience, no one will give you anything. The metal salvage places around here don't want to mess with the acid in order to reclaim the lead.

    I would welcome ideas, as I too have a few taking up space in the garage.

    HM
     
  12. jappo

    jappo TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    45
    Cy-Kick...Think about this! I kept my old batteries both times..They didn't gain anything from an old battery. I still have it.
    I get $5ea from the local salvage yard....Don't have any idea what they are getting for them...
     
  13. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,649
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    The local Fleet Farm store charges a 5 dollar depoisit and gives it back when you bring the old one in. Then they get the money and you don't. So really your battery costs 5 dollars more than the advertised price.

    I better check the savage co.

    HM
     
  14. jnoemanh

    jnoemanh TS Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    526
    One way to look at batteries is that you trade in, say, 20# of lead against the 20# in a new battery. The old lead gets recycled into a new battery, so the cost of lead is a wash. What you pay for is refining and casting the lead, the plastic case, manufacturing costs and profit. Lead price barely figures.

    As someone previously said - if you traded in 25# of used shot on each bag of new, the cost of new shot would be low, whatever the price of lead.
     
  15. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,353
    China- new plants and cheap labor both add up to reduced cost despite the rise in the price of the raw materials

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  16. grammie

    grammie TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    658
    Duper:

    Its called "profit margin"!!!

    Example,,,,,,a store buys a dairy farmers milk for 40 cents per gallon,,,and then sells it for 3.20 per gallon,,a profit of 2.80 per gallon,,the price of fuel causes the price of milk to rise,,,the store now pays 75 cents per gallon of milk,,but in order to keep the products flowing in the stores,,,the store drops the price of milk down to 2.80 per gallon,,,,not nearly as much bottom line profit,,,,BUT!!!! its still a profit!!!

    AKA Grammie.........
     
  17. Wayne In ny

    Wayne In ny TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    72
    From Bloomberg

    Lead Posts Largest Weekly Drop Since 1988; Nickel, Copper Fall

    By Chanyaporn Chanjaroen and Brett Foley

    July 27 (Bloomberg) -- Lead capped its biggest weekly drop since at least 1988 after traders judged that last week's record high no longer reflected the outlook for supply. Nickel and copper also declined.

    Lead surged more than 15 percent last week after an explosion cut output at Doe Run Resources Corp.'s Herculaneum smelter on July 13. The smelter will resume full production next month and lost supply is likely to be small, said analysts including Stephen Briggs at Societe Generale in London.

    ``It got way, way too high, with little volume along the way,'' David Thurtell, an analyst at BNP Paribas in London, said by phone. That encouraged some ``big hedge funds'' who had bet on higher prices and producers of the metal to sell, he said. BNP Paribas is a member of the London Metal Exchange.

    Lead for delivery in three months on the LME fell $110, or 3.6 percent, to $2,970 a metric ton. That's a 15 percent decline for the week, the steepest drop since at least 1988, when Bloomberg data began. The contract reached a record $3,500 on July 23. Lead has been the best performer on the LME this year.

    Supply exceeded demand by 12,700 tons in May, a second consecutive monthly surplus, as smelters and recyclers expanded production to 717,000 tons, the Lisbon-based International Lead and Zinc Study Group said last week.

    Inventories tracked by the LME fell 1.1 percent to 39,000 tons. They have fallen 63 percent in the past 12 months. Stocks are ``low'' and will limit the decline in prices, Thurtell said.
     
  18. K80Dude

    K80Dude Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    317
    Well to answer a few questions: If you have a few batteries sitting around in the garage you probably wont find many places to "buy" them from you. We will buy batteries back if its pallet qty of around 3k lbs or more. We buy truck loads every day. Right now we are paying .07-.17 cents per lb depending on the type of battery. We will receive different amounts depending on the majority of a load of scrap. I shouldn't tell you this but right now we average .27 cents per lb for scrap batteries. You do the math. A semi is a good 50k plus lbs and we can send out 4 or more truck loads a day. Most of the major volume of our scrap is commerical batteries. Everything from large 500lb batteries to batteries that are 3k lbs. We do deal a lot with automotive and SLA batteries so we have a lot of that scrap as well. We ship it to the smelter for that price, I can only imagine if thats what he is paying us what he must be selling it for. The reason retailers charge you a $5 core charge or more in some cases is to get your old battery back. It is not so they can make a profit selling your battery back. Several of the large battery distributors charge their dealers if they do not get a 1 for 1 exchange. Lets take Interstate for an example. They have a mechanic shop etc selling their battery. If that store sells you a battery and does not have a core in exchange Interstate will charge them $5 for not having a one for one replacement. The reason they do that is two fold. One is to make money and two is the company who makes Interestate Batteries (Johnson Control mostly) will charge the Interestate distribuitor if he does not return as many batteries as he buys. This is BS on many levels since its not uncommon for an Interestate distributor to take in way more batteries then they sold. So JCI is way ahead of the game on the core replacement and does not pay the Interestate guy anything for them. So most of the distributors save up "extra cores" and sell them to scrap dealer. So in a way they are double dipping. In our company we do not charge a core fee. We do not pay someone who walks in with one car battery however we are not charging someone a BS $5 fee for not having one right at that moment. We do not get charged by our Manufactures for core exchange. We buy so many batteries its not an issue in funny thing is one of our larger suppliers of automotive batteries actually is paying us for the scrap. So thats why you will see such policys in stores. The fact is its a big profit maker for them because they will take more batteries in then they sell. So returning a battery is not keeping your cost of the new battery down. It can actually cost more to recycle a battery when you look at the total cost of handling that battery then buying new lead. That is not the case as of right now since new lead is so high but several years ago we would have charged you to take a truck load of scrap or maybe paid you .02 per lb. Its a different market right now.

    Dave
     
  19. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,649
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    The last time I cleaned out the garage, I took some batteries to Batteries plus. They let me stack them on a pllet out back, but I got nothing in return.

    I had no other place to go with them.

    HM
     
  20. K80Dude

    K80Dude Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    317
    Halfmile,
    Its funny you say Batteries Plus, I work for their Industrial Sales division. I used to be with Interestates Commercial Sales division prior to Batteries Plus. What city are you located in? I cover the Chicagoland area and NW Indiana however I have customers all over the country but most are in this area.

    Dave
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

cost increases of lead shot since 2008