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Lead prices London Metal Exchange

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by nameisjoe, Oct 20, 2011.

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  1. nameisjoe

    nameisjoe TS Member

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    According to the London Metals Exchange, lead prices have been hovering around 85 cents per pound for nearly a month. Why then are we not seeing a similar drop for shot?

    In my area a bag was close to $40 when the LME had the price of lead at 1.37 per pound.

    What am I missing?
     
  2. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Lag time. But, when it doesn't occur the same way in both directions, you can rest assured that the customer is being gouged. Also called greed.
     
  3. locdoc

    locdoc Member

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    As of this moment KITCO lists lead at $.79/lb.

    Doug Whiton, P/W dealer/dist
     
  4. timberfaller

    timberfaller Well-Known Member

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    Mainly Greed, Bi-Mart raised theirs up last week to $50 per bag from $45.

    You should also thank your congressman and senators! EPA ring any bells???
     
  5. slic lee

    slic lee Active Member

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    Brought to you by our Fed govt. There are many lead mines virtually untouched, not mined in the USA, closed up,sealed,hidden, but marked on govt maps to be used when needed. Lee
     
  6. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that ammo and shot companies buy a lot of raw lead, especially when the market prices are the highest? :)

    Hap
     
  7. Pull & Mark

    Pull & Mark Well-Known Member

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    Now if lead will only stay at that price for 2 l/2 to 3 months, then we should see the prices fall accordingly. That's how long it took last time. This time??? break em all Jeff
     
  8. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Joe -

    At $.85 per pound at the LME, where do you think the price of a 25 lb. bag of lead shot should be?

    At $.85 per pound, it's $21.25 for the raw material for a 25 lb. bag of shot. If you want hard shot you have to factor in the cost of Antimony. I found some references that indicate it costs around $2.80 per pound, and for hard shot at 6 percent Antimony it would take roughly 1.5 pounds per 25 lb. bag, or about another $4.20 per bag added to the cost of the raw material. That puts the raw material at $25.45 per bag.

    I have no idea what the manufacturing and transportation costs are for a bag of lead.

    Scott
     
  9. JerryP

    JerryP Active Member

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    Lead shot could be coming from scrap so the market prices quoted would not apply.
     
  10. Rocketdog

    Rocketdog Member

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    .12 a pound to make it and don't forget shipping.
     
  11. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    Interstate battery was paying 8.00 each for scrap batteries.

    My son said the price dropped a few days ago.


    Don't expect shot to drop accordingly.



    Regards....Gerald
     
  12. perga1

    perga1 Active Member

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    On its way back up, $.8973 at the moment. You have to remove the 1.5 pounds of lead @ $.85 from your calc for it to work. JRM
     
  13. johnpe

    johnpe Member

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    Does anyone out there have a good feel for the timing and cost differences between when pig lead is purchased a a price, delivered to the shot company, made into shot, purchased by a dealer, then delivered to the local seller so we can purchase it? What are the approximate cost adders along the way including profit for the company making the shot, shipping costs and the seller? This information what help everyone that's anticipating when the price drop will reach their shot seller.

    Johnpe
     
  14. Johnny

    Johnny Well-Known Member

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    johnpe , can you hear the music?



    "Anticipation, Anticipation
    Is making me late
    Is keeping me waiting"

    carly simon
     
  15. dead on 4

    dead on 4 Well-Known Member

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    Depending on the size of the manufacturer will determine if they are buying metal futures or spot market. If metal futures, how far out in the future did they make a purchase comitment? This price will determine how long they hold current pricing before an adjustment.

    If a manufacturer makes a large quanity purchase they may have to finance the purchase which adds cost. How a manufacturer reconfigures his raw material will effect finnished cost. Location will determine landed raw material transportation costs. Energy, transportation and packaging costs have been on the rise. All of these factors determine retail price.

    Just because a commodity price sinks, doesn't mean it will be reflected on the retail shelf in days or weeks, it may be months even though an upward spike in commodity prices may show on the retail in short order. This has to do with blended costs, which is another story.

    surfer
     
  16. warpspeed

    warpspeed Member

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    We will need to see the spot price stay below $ 1.00 for 6 to 9 months before the price will be reflected in the marketplace.

    Lead may be a commodity but lead shot in 25# bags is not.
     
  17. JD45

    JD45 Member

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    Exactly! But I wonder why in the hell they raise the price of a bag of shot when the market even smells like it is creeping upward??? A dealer may be sitting on a truck load he bought very cheap, but all of a sudden he thinks he can get away with raising the price on his current supply.

    All that matters is the wholesaler and dealer plays shot like a commodity, and we keep buying it.
     
  18. oletymer

    oletymer Member

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    I don't know about you but I am picking up 10 bags today at 20 dollars a bag. No, there is none left.
     
  19. Recoil Sissy

    Recoil Sissy Well-Known Member

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    warpspeed:

    You stated, "Lead may be a commodity but lead shot in 25# bags is not." I would respectfully submit that is NOT the case. Here's why.

    By definition, commodities are undifferentiated products. They are almost completely interchangeable. As a result, buyers of commodities purchase them primarily on a least cost basis. Commodity sellers OTOH, are forced to compete with each other on low price and high volume.

    Some would argue lead shot is a commodity like any other. They would tell you that West Coast, Remington, Winchester, Lawrence, Eagle, etc. are completely interchangeable with no measurable difference in performance. However, most economists and marketing people would describe lead shot as a 'branded commodity'. With branded commodities, at least some consumers believe there ARE meaningful differences between brand X and brand Y.

    It matters not whether the difference(s) are real or perceived. A difference that exists between a consumer's ears and nowhere else will still drive his or her purchases.

    Sellers of branded commodities work very hard to market 'things' that differentiate their product from their competitors. The point is to give consumers a reason to pay MORE for brand X than the rock bottom price of undifferentiated competing brands.

    Here's the bottom line...

    Substantial numbers of reloaders prefer one brand over others or rank brands in order of desirability. That suggests those brands have been successful in differentiating their product from others.

    However, there is no evidence that one brand of lead shot performs better than its competitors. If such evidence existed or could be established, you can bet your @ss that performance advantage would be heavily advertised and the brand would cost more that it's competitors.

    sissy
     
  20. nameisjoe

    nameisjoe TS Member

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    Did someone really say lead is not a commodity?
     
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