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**Latest Information on the SCTP**

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Chris_H, Jan 26, 2009.

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  1. Chris_H

    Chris_H Member

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    I'm just curious why the change from the first few days of the Grand? Seems like the ATA will lose some shooters at the Grand because the kids would usually stay a few extra days to shoot at the Grand. Also are there any state shoots that week? I saw South Dakota is 7/15-7/20. Not sure whether or not anyone can answer these I was just curious to what others think on the situation.

    -Chris-
     
  2. katies682golde

    katies682golde TS Member

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    The ATA has total control of the World Shooting Complex facilities (the fields, targets, main entry building, etc.) before and after the Grand American Shoot dates. Due to this situation, there were issues experienced at last year’s National Championship. Therefore, the SSSF Board felt it was in the best interest of the SCTP National Championship to go with an independent shoot. With this independent shoot date, we will have full use of the fields for practice and use of the entire main entry building. The dates selected will not interfere with most schools and availability of lodging and camping will be better. Unfortunately, these dates coincide with a few other shoots; however, this would occur no matter what dates were selected.



    Thank you for your inquiry and should you have further questions, please feel free to contact me.



    Karen Peterson

    Director of Administrative Services



    S.S.S.F. / SCTP National Headquarters

    56670 Jewell Road

    Shelby Twp., MI 48315

    Office: 586-781-8229

    Fax: 586-781-6802

    Email: S3F@comcast.net

    www.sssfonline.org (under construction)
     
  3. katies682golde

    katies682golde TS Member

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    From: Jim Thompson <jthompson@shootata.com>
    Subject: RE: SCTP and The GRAND


    Let me make this very clear! The ATA did not change the dates and “we” are not forcing any separation, in fact as of this time we haven’t changed a thing. It has been the desire of the ATA to hold the SCTP Nationals together as it was done last year. The SSSF moved their SCTP Nationals event completely away from the Grand to a period beyond our control.



    Regards,



    Jim

    Jim Thompson
    Executive Director
    Amateur Trapshooting Association
    601 West National Road
    Vandalia, OH 45377

    mailto:jthompson@Shootata.com

    Phone: (937) 898-4638 Ext.523
    Fax: (937) 898-5472
     
  4. roger8918

    roger8918 Member

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    "Therefore, the SSSF Board felt it was in the best interest"

    I wonder how much input the board sought out from their coaches before they made this horrendous decision. Remember that ground up statement awhile back? Bull crap then bull crap now!
     
  5. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Mr. Charles you appear to be the one to stop the ranting. Mr. Thompson clarified some points. You went off on him. Get over it.

    As usual the adults will screw it up for the kids.

    Don
     
  6. trapgeek

    trapgeek Member

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    We also find the separation unfortunate as we are both SCTP coaches and ATA shooters. Plus we still work. Now we are going to have to figure our when are we going to shoot at the Grand. This either means 2 trips out to Sparta or several days without shooting (kind of a waste of vacation days). I liked it better when the SCTP was right before the Grand.

    Maybe we won't even have any kids to shoot at the Nationals to even worry about it, with the ecomony the way it is.

    Trapgeek

    Leslie & Larry York
     
  7. 68sscamaro

    68sscamaro TS Member

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    a big part of the SCTP national championships for us was the whole "Grand" experiance... looking at the venders and geting sctp shooter deals, then staying around to shoot the Grand.. by moving the SCTP, it makes alot of people choose, and with the new AIM program at the Grand the choice is clear..
    i for one would like to know the new direction the SCTP intends to go...
     
  8. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    AIM days at the Grand are August 8-9.
     
  9. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    As pointed out by Karen Peterson of the SCTP, the ATA has control of the ground for one month. That is the complete Complex. One week prior to the Grand, two weeks durning the Grand and the Week after the Grand.
    Nothing moves without the Shoot Directors approval.
    Secondly I would point out that there are now FOUR national Youth Shooting Programs, SCTO of course, 4H and the FFA and now the AIM. The 4H program has I believe over 100,000 kid involved in Air guns, Archery Rifle and Shotgun.
    The three oldest Youth shooting Programs have all been started without the ATA or inspite of the ATA. Remember when the SCTP was invited to shoot before the Grand in Vandalia , and over 1000 kids came with their parents and Grand Parents and there was NO trap help. They couldn't even register. They couldn't even shoot pratice. Their program had to be changed on the spot to shoot 1/2 day the following day. I remember, I was there.
    I remember another Past President desiding the first day he took office that the SCTP program was only going to shoot one day the next year. After all he was in control not them.
    That set up such a fury with the Corperations that Neal had to change direction.
    It will be to the Betterment of the SCTP that the ATA attitude be removed from their program and it be allow to continued to grow and possible merge with other programs.
    I have been introduced to the Nebraska Corn Husker Shoot. That is a 3 day Trap shoot where 1700-1800 Jr. High and High School kids shoot, I believe non registered targets. That Shoot is growing each year. It includes shooters from many States.
    Look at the growth of the SCTP program, twenty to thirty percent each year.
    In our own High School association (Sparta)we have teams that have doubled in size this year.
    As a Vendor I hate to see the Split. I now for other vendors it will be a real dicission which shoot to attend. If I had to choose I would be at the SCTP Shoot. I do much more business in those few days then for the Grand The Last week of the Grand has been a bummer for years. Prelim Week is ok but SCTP week is the best.
    Yes I believe the ATA has shot them selves in the foot one more time. They talk the talk but they don't walk the walk at all.
     
  10. 320090T

    320090T Well-Known Member

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    Which of the four programs do you participate in Stuart?
     
  11. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    I have coashed a high school team for 5 years, so for. Started with a FFA shoot, which we do once a year. Then we expanded and started sponcering SCTP shoots. Then the Sparta Complex opened and we got other High Schools involved. We presently have 3 squads for Trap one Squad of Sporting Shooters and I believe this year we will also field a Skeet team.
    I have hopes of taking a squad out to Grand Island Nebraska and compete in the Corn Husker Shoot this year, which has their own format. Mean while we have a SCTP program here at Sparta and shoot a monthly competition, modified to include individual Class Competition. At present we have 9 high schools and one gun club involved and probally 2 more school this year. We want to teach all disiplines as long as the money holds out. That's why the AIM program doesn't appeal to us.
    Stuart
     
  12. 68sscamaro

    68sscamaro TS Member

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    Stew, my son has shot and won at your monthly competitions a few times and it is a great program...but dont you think moving the sctp away from the grand will lower perticipation of the better shooters.. will ATA shooters travel to shoot sctp then make the trip again for the grand.. will the vendors come for the sctp and hang out till the grand? or will the sctp national championship be as dry as our state sctp championship .. i know my son is very exited about the introduction of the new AIM program ..
     
  13. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    You ask some pointed questions and you have some valid points you are making.
    But for the advancement of the SCTP program and for the advancement of Youth Shooting, including Sporting, Skeet and International ,USA Shooting, I believe it is better served without the attitude of the ATA. The ATA is very norrow minded and only promoting their format.
    Secondly I forsee Youth Shooting in general getting larger then the Grand.
    As we all know the attendance has fallen off for the Grand for at least ten years. Forget the OFFICAL count, check with the Vendors who have over 25 years at the Grand. For at least 10 years the ATA has had promotions to fund Youth Shooting. The give away some Scholarships to kids who shot ATA and there family shoots ATA, but this is the first year they are going to sponsor a program.
    Over the last 5 years I have asked the ATA for instructional matterials to teach Trap. They didn't have anything.I was told to contact the Pro's.
    I asked for money for expences, ammo and equipment, they didn't have a program for that. But they would take your money for Youth Shooting promotions.
    Last Year I asked the NRA for assistance and I got $4,000 for our program.
    It is not my intent to bash the ATA, but they are not any help and I take offence at their attitide.
    The SCTP will have some very rough road to travel in the future , without the funding they had, however I believe a better program is about to merge and with one half the support they have had in the past they will still prevail. Cost to the shooter will go up, cost to the coachs will go up, but they will not go up the $3.00 a hundred the ATA and State TA's will demand.
    I think you will find that The Building Vendors will be at the SCTP Finals.
    The food tents will be there and the gun dealers, ear plug people and t shirt folks will be there. The High End gun dealers probally not. The vendors that camp will be in attendace the one's in the Motels probally not.
    Did you see the State SCTP Teams with their Motor Coachs last year?
    Did you see the crowd that came with them? The organizations that supported thes kids?
    You didn't see that after the Grand started. Of 10 kids I had Shoot Trap at the SCTP last year only two shot any durning the Grand and we live 20 miles from the place. In addition our club even paid for the entry fees.
    No I don't see the SCTP suffering from partisapation. These kids don't want to shoot against the pro's, just their peers.
    I don't like the time of the year we have to shoot. It will be a nightmare comming up with people to set-up and score but I 'll bet we get-R-done.
    Just my experence.
    Stuart
     
  14. tuscarora 99

    tuscarora 99 TS Member

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    Stuart, I shoot the sctp, and really dont know what to think yet about all of it. But what i do know is that if only 2 of your kids shot at the grand and u live only 20 miles away. They arent taken advantage of where they live. I would love to come to the grand this year but i live in maryland. With the economy the way it is i dont know if i will be able too. Im definitely not gonna come for the national championships and then the grand there is no possible way. And im not gonna spend 50 100 dollars a night at a hotel to wait around for the grand. I think it is a little absurd that the sctp is moving their dates away from the grand. If i was going to pick i would go to the grand. Everytime. And the better shooters in sctp will also. Just my two cents
     
  15. hoosier

    hoosier TS Member

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    Stuart, I have read all of your posts and you make some valid points. For you and your teams, it seems to me that SCTP is the program you want to go with. That is fine, but why not try to make a positive impact with the program that you like instead of trying to make a negitive impact with the program you don't like. There are going to be some coaches who choose to shoot the SCTP and there will be others who choose to shoot AIM. Bashing one or the other isn't helping either program. Everyone keeps saying that it is for the kids, but I keep seeing adults complaining about one program or the other. It looks like the adults are the ones having the problems with SCTP or AIM. Why not promote both and let the kids shoot in the program that is best for them? JMHO.
     
  16. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    hoosier;
    If their was not a SCTP organization and their was not a ATA program our kids will still be shooting.
    Our program doesn't need either, we have our own conference. We would be shooting Trap and 5 stand and Skeet. If we had a bunker we would be shooting Internanional also. All we need is the facility not the organizations. We have modifird the SCTP program to fit our wants. What I'm trying to point out to you is as long as there ar Trap/ Skeet/ Sporting facilities their will be Youth Shooting.
    Yes, it makes it hard on all when there are organizations that must impose their will and requirements on kids and programs. We, our conference, will not subject our kids to this. We will provide a level playing field for them to compete on.
    That is much more important then attending the Grand or any other National event. Sure it would be nice to take them to the carnival and see the lights, but that is secondary in teaching them disipline, sportmanship, and teamwork.
    I'm sure each State has a organazation that will supply this reguardless of what letters they have in front of their name. That is already in place.
    When I mentioned that only two of our kids shot the Grand, that was all that had any desire to shoot with the old folks, after they shot the SCTP Grand. That isn't what they have a desire to do. They desire to shoot against their fellow students.
    Further I don't see this issue with the ATA and SCTP causing one shooter the misfortune of not being able to compete. In the event that happens then some one at the Club level is droping the ball, Not the ATA or SCTP.
    Lets say that their isn't a national organazation of any type for Youth Clay Target, and there is this facility sitting enpty with 120 Trap fields, 24 Skeet fields and two hugh Sporting Clay Courses. Don't you think that the owners of this facility would find a way to use it?
    If the Skeet Shooters can get along with the Sporting Clays shooters and vica-versa why not the ATA and anybody else?
    I have a anwser for that. Each year their is a different personality leading the ATA. Each year the personality changes, with their own ideas on how things should be. They don't follow-up on the programs of the previous President, they are going to install their own. Next year a new Pres. comes alomg and he doesn't want that old guys programs or ideas he has his own. He will do it his way. Absolutly no continunity from year to year. Each one of these guy's has their own agenda and that's the way it's going to be. As a result nothing ever gets done.
    We, the ATA, have fired two fine Ex. Directors because of one issue or another. Thats progress? They have a new boss each year, and a EC with a bunch of thoughts and directives.
    On the other hand you have one person in charge of the SCTP. He has done this , Youth Shooting programs, for over 30 years. He has done this before and with great sucess. This isn't the man's first trip around the block. He will not be making the same mistake over and over.
    I hope this explains my position and the path we are going to follow.
    Please disreguard my spelling, my fingers don't move as fast as my head.
    Stuart
     
  17. 68sscamaro

    68sscamaro TS Member

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    Stew i see your point but like i said before i think the SCTP may lose perticipation from the better shooters.. my son loves the lights, he loves shooting with the old guys, and beating up on the all americans..last year he had to forfiet a trophy at your state shoot (Il) in order to race down to his state SCTP shoot, then back up to brittany to win the sub junior handicap the next day..now with SCTP that far in front of the grand AIM is calling his name....
     
  18. Stuart

    Stuart Member

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    Their is no doubt that ATA is the format for him. He has Competition between his teeth and self confident. It also sounds as if he has a father that will bust but to help him and knows the ropes.
    My shooters do not have that. What they do have is other kids they can partisapate with. Learning the basic's.
    Your son is long past that and reaping his rewards.
    Maybe he needs to be introduced to Bunker or Sporting?
    Good luck
    Stuart
     
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